Like drinking, but not 21? Check out these countries!

[odin_dax]

Age Requirement for Drinking in Another Country

No Minimum Countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, China, Fiji, Nigeria, Poland*, Portugal, Georgia, Thailand, Vietnam

Age 16: Antigua, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany*, Greece*, Italy, Netherlands*, Norway*, Poland, Spain*, Turkey*, Switzerland*
- I don't know why Poland is on both lists. Probably different for males and females.

* = with exceptions

Age 19: South Korea

Age 20: Japan, Iceland

Go to http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html to check out details, info by individual US States, and the list of countries where 18 is the minimum drinking age.

[torcher]

*sigh* still have a short while before i drink legally.

[odin_dax]

*sigh* still have a short while before i drink legally.

It's funny how big of a deal for young kids drinking is in the US and Australia. Kills the boredom, I guess, but there are other ways of having fun many between your age and mine don't take up.

[REL0AD]

In Morocco the legal age is 18 for non-muslims.

In Saudi it is illegal to sell alcohol to anyone.

In the UK it's 18*. Having said that it's easy as fuck to get drink when your underage here. I was drinking at 14, an alcoholic by the age of 16.

* You can have a cider or lager with a meal in a resturant at 16 I belive, as long as your with an over 18 and they order/buy it.

I have an ASBO against me banning me from possesing or buying alcohol in a public place (including pubs). I'm also not allowed to appear intoxicated in a public place. I'm 20. :hitwithro


Age 16: Spain*
* = with exceptions

Yeah, when I was in Tenerife you had to be 18 to buy alcohol. Didn't stop me though, again it was easy to obtain. I'm not 100% if Tenerife is under Spanish law though?

Since alcohol became a popular blood-sport back in the sixties and seventies kids have been trying to break into the liquor cabinet. Knowing how they do it can be the post pro-active approach to preventative methods but it also helps understand the teenage mind.

I will be the first to admit that I have an underage sibling at the moment who continuously claws to get himself into establishments. Talking to him reveals the most dynamic laid plans of the boozy night out for today's UK teenagers...

The Look
Any person with an air of confidence can easily bypass a bouncer or fool a bar person. It starts with the clothes. Comfortable joggers, chains and caps are all a no-no, tarting up is at the top of the list. The most unsuspecting underage drinker wears semi-smart attire and looks mildly scruffy- going mainly for the student look where they cannot afford a wash rather than the slicked back hair that their mother assisted with before they left the house. Girls who hold handbags too close to their bodies are shying away from staff and those too loud with wide hand gestures draw too much attention. In fact when it comes to teenage girls its very hard to tell if they are overage if indeed they drink too much as they all seem to act like school-girls after a bottle of wine or two.

The Talk
This air of confidence comes with the right speak, stuttering, murmuring or general uncertainty gives underage drinkers away immediately. Therefore all lines must be prepared and practised so they don't sound falsified. Underage drinkers will take the time to act as if they do not care if they get into a pub or not, the casual stroll ignorant of the bouncers chatting to the person behind them works for most pubs. The confidence of the talk means being able to look a bouncer in the eye who asks for ID and saying "I don't think so" rather than "I don't have any".

ID
The truth is you hardly ever need any for a pub. If you can the talk the talk teenagers can easily get in and get served. When it comes to bars though and clubs owners are much more careful and almost always ask for ID. People I know that are parents still get asked and when they forget it that's it. ID is the single easiest way to catch out teenagers as if you confront them they more often-than-not back down and shy away where as they should in fact stand up and instead of giving an excuse stare you blankly in the face and tell you to get on your horse.

Drinks
Underage drinkers go for alco-pops first thing in the evening and this is such a give-away as older drinkers will grab a pint and a glass of house-wine for the lady. The lean impatiently on the bar and have overly loud conversations with friends waiting with them.

Big groups
Underage drinkers seem to take risks together in packs and are an instant giveaway sometimes bringing in rucksacks and bags by the armload. These groups will be seen to send up the oldest looking person to buy drinks while the rest of them sit their waiting and they stick out like a sore thumb!

Remember that teenagers are crafty, getting wasted is the single goal of their existence for a great many years and getting in their head is the best way to ensure you can prevent their entry and ensure you keep your license.

http://barblog.lastminuteliving.com/my_weblog/2006/05/news_getting_in.html

[Esophagus]

Age 19: South KoreaYou failed to mention that Canada is 18 in Alberta, 19 everywhere else. Also a lot closer than Korea. Better idea though? Find someone to boot for you. Or wait.

[odin_dax]

You failed to mention that Canada is 18 in Alberta, 19 everywhere else. Also a lot closer than Korea. Better idea though? Find someone to boot for you. Or wait.

That's because people need to drink if they live in Alberta! :kidding: No explanation as to why Saskatchewan is still 19...

[Mr.V]

I guess one can no matter what get a friend to get his alcohol, But ok, If one can buy it himself legally it's much better, Independency....

[odin_dax]

I guess one can no matter what get a friend to get his alcohol, But ok, If one can buy it himself legally it's much better, Independency....

Getting drunk is stupid. I mean, people getting drunk to get drunk because they want to have fun or because it's cool, or some form of entertainment is outrageous stupid. If you can find another reason to get drunk... Have fun!

[torcher]

your pops must have been a raging alcoholic that beat you up. drinking is loads of fun.

[odin_dax]

your pops must have been a raging alcoholic that beat you up. drinking is loads of fun.

The extreme opposite.

[torcher]

so hes a bible thumping jesus freak that didnt even drink his communion wine, and instilled images in your head of people who died from drinking and told you that if you even tried it your liver would explode?

[REL0AD]

I'm an alcoholic.

Drink shows no mercy, it takes no prisoners.

[headcase]

I would say your both wrong. Odin, come back after you've had a few pints in the local with your friends. And drink isn't an issue with most people.

[Mr.V]

Getting drunk is stupid. I mean, people getting drunk to get drunk because they want to have fun or because it's cool, or some form of entertainment is outrageous stupid. If you can find another reason to get drunk... Have fun!


Dear pal,
Where did I wrote It's cool, That it's a form of entertainment ?

Thanks ! :yawn:

[odin_dax]

Dear pal,
Where did I wrote It's cool, That it's a form of entertainment ?

Thanks ! :yawn:

You didn't. I was relating to the topic.

[odin_dax]

I would say your both wrong. Odin, come back after you've had a few pints in the local with your friends. And drink isn't an issue with most people.

I hear ya. It's just my opinion. It's fun when it happens, for sure, but to say, "Tonight's Friday, I'm get shit-faced tonight!" that's another matter. Planned vs unplanned.

[odin_dax]

so hes a bible thumping jesus freak that didnt even drink his communion wine, and instilled images in your head of people who died from drinking and told you that if you even tried it your liver would explode?

Okay, not that extreme.

[Tarnak]

If you're going somewhere to drink you picked some of the most expensive far fetched vacations imaginable.

Why not just fly to Jamaica, stay in Westport Cottages for $20/night on Negril beach, and walk daily up to the all inclusive resorts with all inclusive bars such as Sandals, Beaches, or the ever tempting Hedonism 2?

And if drinking for free all day long and riding the water slide isn't enough for you, you'll find numerous vendors on your daily walk who cater to all manner of other vices.

I think that kicks the shit out of some money sucking sausage fest in nowherefuckpub, UK.

[Mr.V]

sounds gooood

[REL0AD]

If you're going somewhere to drink you picked some of the most expensive far fetched vacations imaginable.

Why not just fly to Jamaica, stay in Westport Cottages for $20/night

I think that kicks the shit out of some money sucking sausage fest in nowherefuckpub, UK.

The cost of the flight on top of $20?

I'd rather get a UK bottle ov cheap white lightning for ?2.50 a 3litre every day.

[s70n3d]

Getting drunk is stupid. I mean, people getting drunk to get drunk because they want to have fun or because it's cool, or some form of entertainment is outrageous stupid. If you can find another reason to get drunk... Have fun!

Well why do we get high just to get high? Or why do we breathe just to breathe? Shit why dont we just start not waking up to wake up... then we wont have a reason to live! Awesome.

Sorry but no act you do is directed toward "Not doing it", so if you get high just to get high your just as bad as the person getting drunk to get drunk... because thats the obvious point in the whole "Getting high" solution. Wether or not you get high to broaden your mind, or to expand upon your spirituality... your still getting high to get high in the first place. If you say otherwise you my friend are quite retarded :P

There is an obvious aim everyone has in life, so untill you can tell me you dont live to live then I'm afraid you have become an oxymoron

[odin_dax]

Well why do we get high just to get high? Or why do we breathe just to breathe? Shit why dont we just start not waking up to wake up... then we wont have a reason to live! Awesome.

Sorry but no act you do is directed toward "Not doing it", so if you get high just to get high your just as bad as the person getting drunk to get drunk... because thats the obvious point in the whole "Getting high" solution. Wether or not you get high to broaden your mind, or to expand upon your spirituality... your still getting high to get high in the first place. If you say otherwise you my friend are quite retarded :P

There is an obvious aim everyone has in life, so untill you can tell me you dont live to live then I'm afraid you have become an oxymoron

An argument based on assumption is no argument at all.

1) I'm not against getting drunk, but I don't think it should be the basis of entertainment

2) I don't get high.

3) Some people get high just to get high. Some people get high for the main purpose of easing pain. And some for a spiritual experience. Maybe the physical ends are just about the same, but the motivation is different. I guess I'm retarded.

4) Breathing and getting drunk are two totally separate things. Firstly, breathing is an automated function. Secondly, breathing doesn't have the same harmful effects on the body (ie impaired judgment and motor function). I don't think you make a very good argument using a pair that aren't related to each other.

5) That doesn't make me an oxymoron... but your point simply doesn't make sense anyway. You're using very broad terms to represent any individual part of the whole. You simply can't take a narrowly defined concept, getting drunk for example, and use the same logic, especially without further definition or elaboration, for a very broad term, such as life in general.

[Stone]

Back on topic...

Here in Ireland, they are trying to bring through a law that if you have to be 21 or older to buy alcohol from an off-licence. 18 to buy drink in a pub, but other than that 21. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. It won't affect me 'cos I'm in my mid twenties, but there are plenty of 18/19/20 year olds who drink responsibly but they are going to be penalised for the actions of a minority. Why don't they just make alcohol illegal if that's the case? I hate this fucking nanny state.

[headcase]

"Getting drunk to have fun is stupid." Odin, do you watch TV for entertainment? By you're logic, that would be stupid. In fact, by you're logic, wouldn't every form of entertainment that isn't somehow indirectly beneficial to oneself "stupid"? I don't understand yo're arguement. What is it that makes it stupid? You haven't really defined the unit of "worthwhile", so you're not really arguing anything, just blowing hot air about nothing.

[odin_dax]

"Getting drunk to have fun is stupid." Odin, do you watch TV for entertainment? By you're logic, that would be stupid. In fact, by you're logic, wouldn't every form of entertainment that isn't somehow indirectly beneficial to oneself "stupid"? I don't understand yo're arguement. What is it that makes it stupid? You haven't really defined the unit of "worthwhile", so you're not really arguing anything, just blowing hot air about nothing.

Well, I could argue that watching TV is a waste of time, but there is no need. Worthwhile, I didn't know I needed to define here. Isn't it obvious, regardless of how fun it is, drinking has many side effects? Does TV not decrease mobility? Obviously, if we were to use above examples, breathing is not a choice, waking and sleeping are not choices, and neither is living (more or less). Getting high is dependent on the motivation. It isn't a personal choice I'd make, so I can't define getting high as worthwhile. So, are you asking me to define worthwhile by my terms? If you are, and I state them, then any logical response assumes the definition is accepted. If so, then my logical reasoning makes sense. If I post my definition of worthwhile and it gets attacked for what it is, then it wouldn't make sense for me to post it all. Understand?

Anyway, I think my statements make sense without defining the opposite, because I gave reasons as to why I think getting drunk for entertainment isn't appropriate. I have nothing against drinking. I have nothing against getting drunk if it happens. I drink. I think people should know their limits, and know what kind of drunks they are. I've seen the nicest people become assholes drunk, seen people pick fights, lose money, getting arrested for DUI's. I think to say, "Alright, it's Friday, let's go get drunk!" is stupid as fuck. People that do that, I'd argue, are bored or depressed, maybe both, but mainly bored. And don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. I wouldn't spend most of my weeknights in bars if I hated the atmosphere and people so much, I don't. I don't drink regularly, but a lot of my friends are bartenders.

Again, in relation to this post, the above example of getting high is difficult. I support the legalization of pot in the US, but I don't do it myself. I think pot is safer and healthier than cigarettes. I grew up with asthma, though I don't have it anymore, and in my early teens I had a lot of lung-related illnesses (ie bronchitis). That being said, I'm more than reluctant to start any kind of smoking. I never had a real desire anyway... but that could be argued as an "environmental" factor.

But, really, why is this specific subject being dragged out? If you guys drink to get drunk, that won't change my opinion of any of you as people. Okay, I have a different point of view, and I'm certain I won't convince anybody to stop drinking, so unless this is going to go anywhere, I'm done responding to this line of thought.

Cheers!

[odin_dax]

Back on topic...

Here in Ireland, they are trying to bring through a law that if you have to be 21 or older to buy alcohol from an off-licence. 18 to buy drink in a pub, but other than that 21. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. It won't affect me 'cos I'm in my mid twenties, but there are plenty of 18/19/20 year olds who drink responsibly but they are going to be penalised for the actions of a minority. Why don't they just make alcohol illegal if that's the case? I hate this fucking nanny state.

Most people don't understand the laws in the US. It is legal for kids to drink at home, in some states at least. In the 80's, there was a big push here to raise the public drinking age to 21. In a few years, the result was positive. There were less alcohol related incidents on the road, fewer deaths and accidents, etc.
See, that worked here in the US, but we across the pond have a different culture and mentality. If we were raised to think alcohol is not so big a deal, say in like Italy, then maybe the laws would be different here. I can't say for certain.
There are always going to be a minority that ruin it for the whole bunch, but it isn't them that change the laws. I blame liberals. Sorry, but it's a known fact they change laws for only minorities. I suppose you can rally a bunch of people and threaten to remove people from office if they vote to pass the new drinking laws.

[headcase]

None of that is relevant to anything.

I blame liberals. Sorry, but it's a known fact the change laws for only minorities.

Well it's a known fact that all conservatives are idiot rednecks. :sigh1:

[odin_dax]

None of that is relevant to anything.



Well it's a known fact that all conservatives are idiot rednecks. :sigh1:

Sorry you don't see it as relevant, but it is. It's a discussion, not a debate.

What's with the name calling? Liberalism has many strong points in US history, but sometimes they go against the cultural grain. Liberalism has championed for many freedoms, so has conservatism. It isn't necessarily bad or good to be one or the other. If we attach generic labels to ourselves as individuals, that's where we fail. We cannot label one person and sum him up with that label. It's inaccurate and unfair. Liberalism enacts laws in favor or because of a minority. In the case Stone pointed out, whether the people voting are conservative, liberal, or other isn't the issue, but the difference between liberalism and conservatism here is that liberalism seeks government control and conservatism allows for personal responsibility. Often, liberalism will win in dealing with issues of alcohol because not everybody drinks, a smaller number get drunk, and people want to be protected from drunk drivers.
So, when you say all conservatives are idiot rednecks, I hope you didn't jump to any conclusions and try to label and slander me.

[headcase]

More irrelevant tangents. You made a groundless claim and I challenged it. Since then you've waxed on about nothing and tried to change the subject.

By the by, Sentence 1 of Liberalism article on Wikipedia;

Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.

Odin's opinion on the subject.

... but the difference between liberalism and conservatism here is that liberalism seeks government control and conservatism allows for personal responsibility.

Um, no. Oh, and;

So, when you say all conservatives are idiot rednecks, I hope you didn't jump to any conclusions and try to label and slander me.

You've missed the point by a very convincing margin. (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=HrvqTXmXadk)

[odin_dax]

More irrelevant tangents. You made a groundless claim and I challenged it. Since then you've waxed on about nothing and tried to change the subject.

I made a perfectly good claim. The fact that I didn't give you acceptable answers, doesn't mean my original claim isn't valid. I don't answer to you, and we're totally off the subject now. I've explained myself fine for someone who actually reads my posts, and to debate semantics is an endless endeavor I'm not willing to waste my time continuing.

In regards to liberalism, I can explain. Wikipedia is right, and I'm right. There is nothing of conflict in both definitions. Only my definition is more of result, rather than ideology.

Oh, and I do enjoy how you dismiss everything by simply calling it irrelevant. Yeah, way to go... not answer anything.

[headcase]

That post completely speaks for itself. I'm perplexed at how you came to the decision to post it.

[odin_dax]

That post completely speaks for itself. I'm perplexed at how you came to the decision to post it.

If you're going to post a response, try to say something.

[headcase]

I'm emphasising the point that you haven't said anything. Odin, if I have to walk you through everything (including every single premise of "arguement") I'm just going to talk around you.

[odin_dax]

I'm emphasising the point that you haven't said anything. Odin, if I have to walk you through everything (including every single premise of "arguement") I'm just going to talk around you.

If that's your position, I think you need the walkthrough.

[headcase]

Lets look at the highlights of this discussion.

Odin; "Drinking is stupid".

Headcase; "Why"?

Odin; "Well, I drink, but..... the liberals....."

Good stuff Odin. Tell you what, you win. Drinking is stupid because the liberals... and.... entertainment and....

[odin_dax]

Lets look at the highlights of this discussion.

Odin; "Drinking is stupid".

Headcase; "Why"?

Odin; "Well, I drink, but..... the liberals....."

Good stuff Odin. Tell you what, you win. Drinking is stupid because the liberals... and.... entertainment and....

Wow, that is totally not what I said. The part about liberals was in response to Stone's statement about his government wanting to pass new laws to restrict drinking.

Like I also said, drinking just to drink, and get drunk as a result, is stupid. I never someone can't drink, but people should drink casually. Are you actually trying to argue that getting drunk every night is good for someone? Not just getting drunk, but drinking? I mean, anything in excess is bad, no?

I also said many times that my beliefs on alcohol are my own opinion. Now that we're done with the walkthrough and everything's clear for you, headcase, let me say that my opinion is actually based on something. I made several points to support my conclusion. You may disagree, may not, but I haven't seen a hill of beans come from you in this thread either way. So, now that I've taken more time to correct you on the subject, if you want to continue nitpicking little statements, pulling them out of context, or if you want to focus on defintions or continue to argue everything but the main points and subject, be my guest.

Unless anyone adds something new to this thread, I'm done with it. Maybe, headcase, you'd actually like to forumulate an opinion on the topic and share your position with us, hmm? Maybe?

[REL0AD]

Someones in the admins pocket. Need to get a grip son ;)

[Eulux]

Most people don't understand the laws in the US. It is legal for kids to drink at home, in some states at least. In the 80's, there was a big push here to raise the public drinking age to 21. In a few years, the result was positive. There were less alcohol related incidents on the road, fewer deaths and accidents, etc.
See, that worked here in the US, but we across the pond have a different culture and mentality. If we were raised to think alcohol is not so big a deal, say in like Italy, then maybe the laws would be different here. I can't say for certain.
There are always going to be a minority that ruin it for the whole bunch, but it isn't them that change the laws. I blame liberals. Sorry, but it's a known fact they change laws for only minorities. I suppose you can rally a bunch of people and threaten to remove people from office if they vote to pass the new drinking laws.

incorrect. I do not recall having quite this number of morons when I left...

http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol1_2002.pdf

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html

unlike you, I substantiate my claims...second link shows that it was declining before 1987...first link is a long pdf, but full of useful information...also you ignore the propaganda the government issued at that time, stigmatizing (sp?) drunk driving...and kids are impressionable fuckers.

in either case, to those that say there is something wrong with drinking...you are probably thinking alcohol causes all of these fatalities and moronic behavior...however, you'd be best to observe everyday fuckers without drinking. I have more to say than most any other fucker on this board having to deal with drunk fuckers around bare ass pussy for over ten hours...how I currently have an extremely broken hand...

it's not the alcohol, it's the people. it's like absinthe; some crazy fucker drinks absinthe then murders his whole family...well, let's blame the absinthe...

people are assholes, whether drunk or not. people most often do not seriously change when they get drunk...just they think they do, and others seem to feel it as well...this is a philosophical and drug related matter better confined to one of the other forums, but as you brought it up, fuck it ( I mean, I thought this was originally a true food and drink forum...this topic would have been better in politics honestly. especially after I am finished.). placebo effect...sugar pills...etc. people suddenly change when drinking alcohol? it's a weak-ass OTC fuckin depressant. don't blame others or the alcohol for people's reactions...

"Getting drunk is stupid. I mean, people getting drunk to get drunk because they want to have fun or because it's cool, or some form of entertainment is outrageous stupid. If you can find another reason to get drunk... Have fun!"

first off, outrageous stupid is an outrageously moronic thing to say, therefore you fail at life...at least that would be proper reasoning utilizing your logic. but I do think less of youfor having said that, honestly. I consider what most people think of as arguments to be minor altercations, or even a simple game...

second...who gives a shit what people find for entertainment...people do all kinds of shit I don't like...for instance...I hate TV. doesn't mean I find it or everyone who watches it moronic...or to borrow your craptastic phrase, "outrageous stupid." nor should I, if I truely have the respect for others that I claim to. I never fault any society for any mores they may have...it's just another thing people do to have fun. some people get their rocks off by skateboarding, some by writing, some by reading, some by driving fast, etc...none are inherently better than any other, just different. respect is the key, son...strive for it.

that's all, my hand hurts...I'm off to get drunk and high.

*bump btw...

[odin_dax]

[color=black]incorrect. I do not recall having quite this number of morons when I left...

http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/vol1_2002.pdf

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html

unlike you, I substantiate my claims...second link shows that it was declining before 1987...first link is a long pdf, but full of useful information...also you ignore the propaganda the government issued at that time, stigmatizing (sp?) drunk driving...and kids are impressionable fuckers.

in either case, to those that say there is something wrong with drinking...you are probably thinking alcohol causes all of these fatalities and moronic behavior...however, you'd be best to observe everyday fuckers without drinking. I have more to say than most any other fucker on this board having to deal with drunk fuckers around bare ass pussy for over ten hours...how I currently have an extremely broken hand...

Maybe you should take a longer break, if your first post is going to start off by calling everybody "idiot"....

No one is claiming all fatal car accidents are caused by drunk drivers. And not only do I not have to back every claim I make with a link, I check what others post. The statistics are clear. From the second link, since 1982, the percentage of alcohol related deaths has DECREASED. So has the number of accidents involving alcohol. So, what are you arguing, since that's exactly what I said?





[snipped some rambling]

first off, outrageous stupid is an outrageously moronic thing to say, therefore you fail at life...at least that would be proper reasoning utilizing your logic. but I do think less of youfor having said that, honestly. I consider what most people think of as arguments to be minor altercations, or even a simple game...

Fail? Because your measure is the standard of all? Hey, like I said, I drink too. I don't think it's moronic to say how stupid it is, though. You should look up Russian stats on alcohol related deaths (and I don't mean driving). Honestly, I couldn't care less about what you may or may not think of me. If there's something you feel passionately about that I don't like and that gets you all in an uproar, then honestly, I think it's you that fails in life. I'm not going to tell you why either. Figure that out yourself.


second...who gives a shit what people find for entertainment...people do all kinds of shit I don't like...for instance...I hate TV. doesn't mean I find it or everyone who watches it moronic...or to borrow your craptastic phrase, "outrageous stupid." nor should I, if I truely have the respect for others that I claim to. I never fault any society for any mores they may have...it's just another thing people do to have fun. some people get their rocks off by skateboarding, some by writing, some by reading, some by driving fast, etc...none are inherently better than any other, just different. respect is the key, son...strive for it.


Don't call me son.

I agree, who gives a shit what other people do? Did I not say anything along those lines? Or did I not say I wouldn't stop anyone from doing what they like?
Yes, you can make the argument that anything else is stupid, but not all things are equal as you say. TV, for example, doesn't damage the liver or brain. Skateboarding does not alter one's state of mind or motor control.
And I do respect people, but I have opinions on everything, just like everybody else. It isn't wrong to express that opinion in discussion, like here. But I don't think it's entirely respectful for you to tote some kind of attitude like you're free from any bias or judgment when you repeatedly spoke to me like I was beneath you as you did in your post.
Perhaps this whole response could have been avoided if you had actually read my posts, not just the bits and pieces you disagreed with. As a whole, I think you'd find that the subject is closed, and that any conclusions on the matter I've restated here.

[odin_dax]

I was drunk when I wrote that, btw.

[Eulux]

short stuff...pay attention. seriously....pay attention.

I habitually insult everyone with new posts after a period of inactivity...hell, I've mellowed alot since the old pier/safehouse days. I get my kicks in different ways now I guess...

broken down in order of points:


1.
1987 is a year. so is 1982. five years or so apart. follow?
the argument that I put forth, which you conveniently forgot to read...is that it (alcohol related driving fatalities) was decreasing before the law was passed...


2.
I am arguing that the law was not the cause, more probably the propaganda campaign started way before the law.


3.
there is a certain word which pops into my head...it is called sarcasm. do you honestly believe that anyone would think you fail at life for saying a completely valley-girlish phrase such as "outrageous stupid?" if so...hit your head with a pick-axe until you cannot do so anymore. this too is sarcasm...do not get all in a tizzy about some douchebag (me) over the internet kiddo.


4.
I couldn't honestly care if some other internet moron thinks I fail at life...especially when I have stated this is more akin to a game rather than a true debate. no offense intended whatsoever...from the poor logic flows that I read from your posts...you couldn't keep up with me if I were serious. you take things too personally...

for instance...if someone throws a random insult in either real life or on a forum, and you don't really know them, chances are it's just an eccentricity of that person...or just local vernacular...or perhaps just as jokes. lighten up, enjoy life son. I'm a moron and an asshole...don't bare your teeffers , object of my condescension...


5.
ok son...I have a bad habit of knowing which phrases will set off certain individuals...I think that's why I'm so popular at work...cause it works both ways. but I digest...

if you agree, then why judge?

tv not damage the brain? comedian you are! I also think there must be some correlation inbetween those that skateboard and those that stick their dicks in light sockets...

as for respect...hmmm...you show respect in funny ways...but meh.

in either case...me free from bias or judgment? ahhhh...in respect towards you...grow a sense of humor. without it you will never survive the upcoming months...cold and dark times lie ahead of you, young one. you must carry on the tribal name.

Perhaps this whole response could have been avoided if you had actually read my posts, not just the bits and pieces you disagreed with. As a whole, I think you'd find that the subject is closed, and that any conclusions on the matter I've restated here.

no subject is closed until it is closed...

and...unfortunately for you...unlike you...I reread every post multiple times and also reference to them as I type...benefit of dual monitor. cheer up sweetness...and if you do respond, do not just quote my post then make random assertions, actually let them apply to the quoted text. for examples, review my first post...and my second.

if this offends you as my previous post apparently did...please realize that I am just having a little bit of fun before I run back into obscurity.


*I was sober when I posted this

[odin_dax]

Offended, no. Other things, yes.


The problem with your logic is that you have none, so I'm sure I couldn't keep up with you, in your eyes. Everyone is an expert of logic online it seems, I don't give myself that title. I can spot good arguments and bad ones. Your whole numbered list there is full of personal opinion, of which I don't care. From your previous post, you may or may not agree. However, I would like any scientific data you may have that may support your statement that TV does indeed damage the brain. If I'm wrong, I will take that into account in any future arguments I may participate in.


Enjoy obscurity.

[odin_dax]

BTW, other laws were passed before 1987 that changed the legal drinking age. I suggest you look them up before claiming anything. Don't forget, states also had control over their laws. The federal minimum law was signed in 1984, but it was upheld in the Supreme Court in 1987. Throughout all that time, I'd have to say the law was being followed more than not in the States.

[Eulux]

pay attention. seriously....pay attention

BTW, other laws were passed before 1987 that changed the legal drinking age. I suggest you look them up before claiming anything.

1.
1987 is a year. so is 1982. five years or so apart. follow?
the argument that I put forth, which you conveniently forgot to read...is that it (alcohol related driving fatalities) was decreasing before the law was passed...


2.
I am arguing that the law was not the cause, more probably the propaganda campaign started way before the law.


note no mention of any other laws..........
pay attention. seriously....pay attention


the fact that you do not attempt to refute any of my claims/arguments tells me one of two things:

1. you are too lazy to read (quite possible)

2. you cannot...argue? (quite possible as well)

once again, learn about jokes. it'll help you get a better job in the future.

and it's not that I'm an expert at anything involving intelligence...hell I'm the first to say I'm moronic...but it's the fact that as dumb as I may be, you are below me...at least at expressing said ideas. which is sad, cause I'm quite convoluted and random.

[ComfortablyNumb]

First- Eulux- there are many, many state laws regarding legal drinking age that were passed prior to 1982, there's too many to coherently list or sort through to find the pertinent rule to this discussion, however its fairly common knowledge (or so I thought...) just look it up if you're skeptical (though you never said you were skeptical, I think you were just yelling at Odin for not posting his references... but when its something as obvious as this is it really necessary?)

Next- I missed the part where Odin said that the laws concerning drinking age were the cause of lowered collisions. He did say that since the laws were enacted, the results have been positive. This does not necessarily mean that he thinks the raising of drinking ages is the only cause for the decline in alcohol-related deaths (it can be interpreted that it only means that there is a positive correlation between the enactment of said laws and the lowered rates of drunk-driving related fatalities- which there certainly is), but can it really be reasonably denied that it at least contributed to the lowered rates? (I'm sure it can be denied, but pay attention to the word "reasonably" as it is meant in a legal sense)- I mean, when an act is made illegal the rate of commission of said act almost invariably goes down with it, for the simple reason that many people dont want to break the law (find me a situation in which an act was made illegal and the rate of commission of that act did not decrease if you disagree- US law only, seeingf as this relies on cultural perception of law) Of course the propaganda campaign played a role in reducing the number of alcohol related accidents, but that doesn't mean that that was the only cause, and since the laws regarding the subject came into place during this propaganda campaign, and since following the enactment of the laws the accident rates continued to fall, then it can be reasonably asserted that the laws played a role in lowering the number of alcohol related deaths. Both the propaganda campaign and the enactment of legislation played roles in lowering the number of alochol-related deaths, but since Odin never denied the propaganda campaign, wheras you denied the laws as being a cause, I have to say that you aremost likely wrong, Eulux.

btw, just for reference, you denied it here:
I am arguing that the law was not the cause, more probably the propaganda campaign started way before the law

Other than those two arguments I can't really see what else you two are talking about, except for name-calling and critiscizing the other's logic (btw, Eulux, no offense, but it does degrade your "logic" when you mish-mash it with your opinions, sarcasm, name-calling, and jokes- I'm not saying you're wrong, technically, but rather that you shouldn't really be critiscizing the logic of others when your grasp of how to properly use it is certainly lacking.)

oh wait, the tv damage to the brain thing... I have no idea on it, I can't even tell if Eulux was seriously saying that tv causes brain damage, or whether he was joking and making fun of Odin... but that just makes me point to the preceding paragraph... I sure hope it doesn't damage my brain, seeing as how I watch a lot of it. I dont see how it could damage the brain per se, but I do see how it could prevent one from filling their brain with useful information, so I guess if you interpret filling your brain with worthless information- ie most of tv- then yes, it would be damage. But hey, I'm not a scientist, and I have no idea whether or not some weirdo radiation is eminating from the television and damaging my brain (though I highly, highly doubt it).

[Eulux]

I always hated reading your long posts...never using punctuation...asshole.

I'll try my best to answer your issues in an honest manner, cause I actually remember you and used to enjoy bantering.

ok, yes I'm aware that the states were left to regulate as they saw fit (which is optimal in my opinion). odin was stating that the
"big push...to raise the public drinking age to 21...In a few years, the result was positive. There were less alcohol related incidents on the road, fewer deaths and accidents, etc."

That law was passed in 1987. The link in question that had the table for the deaths showed a decline was in effect before 1987. While there was a major propaganda campaign in effect about driving drunk. This seems to answer the first 1/4 of your post.

Yes, I do not believe the law was the cause for the decline, as it was happening before the law was passed. people, especially teenagers, care alot more about public perception rather than laws. Look at the 60's...openly flaunting the drug policies cause at the time it was groovy to do so.

as for me properly knowing how to use logic, of course I know how to...I just didn't care in that instance. people like odin are easily manipulated and drawn into confrontation. they hold grudges. I see that, and I jump and exploit for personal amusement. just my way of having fun...and still remaining topical. I am not a moderator of anything anymore, so perhaps this is my way of "cutting loose." dunno.

Yes I was making fun of odin. I do personally despise TV...but does it actually physically induce brain trauma? no...though I do think too much network TV can be detrimental to you intelligence. now that's personal belief. rather than watching some contrived melodrama, or some fool's attempt at either satire or humor, I can read a book...and increase both my vocabulary and knowledge.

All I do is for my own amusement...mostly sarcasm mixed with my actual argument. only when someone presents an argument about something I care about will I try to debate someone.

I would love for some kind of socratic dialogue to occur on these boards in the rare way that they would on the old rorta...but with the current member base, I don't see anything happening. sometimes stirring up random shit can provoke a response in the user base...this did not happen. makes you long for the days of mad, or kak, or even that commie-can-do-no-wrong ass...

[odin_dax]

People like me? Honestly, if you think I give you a though after I'm off Rorta, then you're full of yourself. Maybe I wasn't around for the good old days, but if they're anything like you describe then this board must of been crawling with bored trolls, such as yourself. If you want to get your rocks off by phishing, I suggest Totse.
And while we're on the subject of you, which I know you love, why don't you use your superior logic to find out the reason you're such a raving idiot, can you?

I predict a long-winded response full of more irrelevant ramblings, and trying to use this post as proof of his earlier statements.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the subject... Not 21?

[ZionBlack]

Most people don't understand the laws in the US. It is legal for kids to drink at home, in some states at least. In the 80's, there was a big push here to raise the public drinking age to 21. In a few years, the result was positive. There were less alcohol related incidents on the road, fewer deaths and accidents, etc.
See, that worked here in the US, but we across the pond have a different culture and mentality. If we were raised to think alcohol is not so big a deal, say in like Italy, then maybe the laws would be different here. I can't say for certain.
There are always going to be a minority that ruin it for the whole bunch, but it isn't them that change the laws. I blame liberals. Sorry, but it's a known fact they change laws for only minorities. I suppose you can rally a bunch of people and threaten to remove people from office if they vote to pass the new drinking laws.

If any state were to lower the drinking age below 21, the federal government would stop giving them highway funding. and nobody want to lose money over some unhappy kids right?

[crazy white guy]

I just paid for a fake ID. im getting it on thursday

fuck yeah

[odin_dax]

I just paid for a fake ID. im getting it on thursday

fuck yeah

LOL! How old are you?

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

ARRRGHH watch out it McLovin.

"Brace your self fool!"

[Pimpin4Life30]

Cant wait to go on my trip to europe next year!!!

[Pimpin4Life30]

edit

[crazy white guy]

LOL! How old are you?

how old did you think i was? (before the age thread)

[odin_dax]

how old did you think i was? (before the age thread)

19.

[Mizzle]

In Morocco the legal age is 18 for non-muslims.

In Saudi it is illegal to sell alcohol to anyone.

That's pretty much true for all Arab states.
In UAE, for the Emirates (Abu Dhabi etc) all non-Muslims require a permit that allows them to purchase alcohol and it's limited per month, the sellers also need a a license. In more rural areas of UAE Alcohol is prohibited to both Muslims and non-Muslims.

In Jeddah, I noticed you could get alcohol though, in the compound residencies where all the ex-pats live. But as for Makkah, Madinah, Riyadh, Dammam (Ash Shaqiyah) you wont get ANY alcohol, sentences for consumption alone is a few weeks to a few months and smuggling, manufacturing and distribution carries heavier sentences of a few years.

And yeah, you can get alcohol at pretty much any age in the UK.
Legal age however is 18, if you're caught drinking in Alcohol Free Zones, it'll be going down the drain though :)

[pinky gerbilsquirt]

In Australia the legal drinking age is 18, however there have been discussions about whether to raise the legal drinking age to 21 because we have a huge problem with young people binge drinking, alcohol related violence and drink driving. They also tried raising the tax on premix drinks or alcopops as this seems to be the prefered drink of underage drinkers and young people

[Th0r]

Yeah, that doesn't work.

I've been buying alcohol on a moderately regular basis since I was thirteen, despite the fact the legal drinking age in my country is 18.

The fact of the matter is there needs to be a total change in the way Westernised Society views alcohol before there is any change in the attitudes towards drinking.

[pinky gerbilsquirt]

I totally agree, alcohol needs to stop being demonized and the government needs to stop makeing it such a huge deal. Saying that I don't mean that underage drinking isn't a big deal but not being allowed to do something just makes it all the more fun when your a teenager. I don't think that I've drank nearly as much now as I did when I was underage, but that's just me.

[torcher]

pinky motherfucking gerbilsquirt, nice to see you back.

anyway, the whole thing about the alcopops being preferred is definitely true and i agree that it should be taxed more. things like Sparks, Bootlegger, Joose, Four Loko etc. should be over $5 a can.

[pinky gerbilsquirt]

Haha thanks torched it's been a while.

Wow your generous with the price lol our alcopops are about $7 for a cruiser or for a wild turkey or Jack daniels it's about $12. But that's the Aussie dollar, I guess after exchange yours would be about the same.

[HxaX]

I live in Las Vegas and I'm only 20.. really sucks but I get buddies to buy it for me. Some of the bars you can sit at as long as you look over 18 and don't act like a immature teenager being all loud n shit

[Sinful]

I used to just go to over 18 clubs and snatch the wristbands from people who wore it too loose. Or get a good fake ID if your not baby faced.

[Needtoknow]

Speaking of safe drugs being vilified I dare say that I have never seen any drug as vilified as GHB.
I enjoy a night out on the town on GHB. Goes great with any food or drink ;-) Also I would like to correct British Columbias drinking age. It's 19.

Edit to odin_dax (poster below me):
Like your full page pisswar?

[odin_dax]

This isn't a drugs thread. Secondly, your post added no purpose to this thread. Please refer to the forum rules before posting again. Thank you, and welcome to Rorta.

[Th0r]

Meh, Hong Kong is good for booze. I don't even get ID'd here despite the fact I always do without fail in the UK.

[Dutch Legend]

Netherlands 16 I love my country. BTW if you are 18 u can get weed at the coffeeshop LEGAL

[neffy]

Just get dirt cheap, high alcohol content mouthwash and distill. You can get a few hundred ml of relatively pure ethanol from a $3.00 liter bottle of wash.

I used to use it and add food color back in for taking it to school with me.

My friends and I would get shitfaced in German class.

[Needtoknow]

Just get dirt cheap, high alcohol content mouthwash and distill. You can get a few hundred ml of relatively pure ethanol from a $3.00 liter bottle of wash.

I used to use it and add food color back in for taking it to school with me.

My friends and I would get shitfaced in German class.

Distilling it sounds like it would bring over the menthol too. I would have to check how much mouth wash costs and how much ethanol per ml to see if its worth the effort.

[Anonymous_Convict]

As far as Canada goes, Quebec is also legal at 18, and as mentioned before, is much closer than Korea. I actually hadn't known that Alberta was only 18, although I don't suppose it matters anymore, given that I'm legal right across my beautiful country.