Pull Devices ?

[gbu-36]

Ok, I know this sounds dumb, but I was wondering if anyone had experience in constructing a fairly waterproof pull type igniter that I could use for attaching to stuff like smoke bombs to make a ghetto smoke grenade.....

Everything Ive been able to think of is just nowhere near waterproof enough for me to take out on excercises

I know there was something about it in "Ragnars Big Book Of Home made weapons" but I dont quite remember how it was set up, and I sorta need something that can be attached to the fuse of one of the long tube style smoke bombs.


Thanks in advance for any help yall can give me ^_^

[DREX]

Maybe the pull bit from a party popper might work but it might have a bit of trouble igniting somthing but that is only my opinion.

[DoctaD]

What about the strip from within a Christmas cracker, inside a drinking straw?

*Remembers why he doesn't contribute to this section, and slowly backs off*

[gbu-36]

hrrm just looked up christmas cracker supplies (had never heard of them before)

This might work if one made a cap and had something to make the flash a bit more (thinking that the powder from all that crappy ammo I bought, made into a paste with acetone and smeared onto the fuse) then sealing the whole device with a screw/pop off cap kinda like the german stick grenades.

Hrrm, Ill have to see about ordering some of this stuff.

Thanks alot, gonna try some things with strike anywhere matches as well I think.

[S25]

What i always used was glycerine in a little water balloon tied so none escapes and put on top of some kmo4 and then i simply stuck a screw through it.The glycerine oxidises the kmno4 and it flares up wich ignites youre smokemix or what ever

[THErAPIST]

I'm not currently at home. i have ragnar bensons book so i'll look in that later when i get home and get back to you on that one...

Waterproof stuff is a pain in the ass usually. the above use of glycerin in a water balloon isn't water proof as the potassium permanganate dissolves easily in water so that one isn't of much use i dun think.

have you thought about electric ignition? for set devices clothes pin type electric ignition works pretty well

For grenades and the like, a fuse that has a 2 inch wide piece of masking tape rolled tightly around it and with an outer layer of either silicone spray or wax would keep the fuse nicely waterproof. you would leave the last quarter of an inch uncovered. Securing a few paper matches around the fuse by tightly wrapping thread around them so that the match heads are at the exposed portion of the fuse would be the next step. after that you would tightly roll a paper match book cover around the match heads/ exposed fuse so that the scratch pad was in contact with one or more of the match heads. the paper striker would now be taped so that it stays tight. taping it here or there to close small holes would serve well to keep it water proof for the most part.

So long as the fuse is secure in the device that it leads to well, all it owuld take to light the fuse is a sharp pull on the match book cover, which is now a pull striker. you pull it fast, it strikes the matches, the intense but short lived inferno ignites the fuse, and then you are go to either blow yourself up or what have you..

It's not a great idea with explosives as it's not always the most reliable hting, but it's fine for smokebombs. that's actually what i do to make smokebombs for camping trips and stuff

[Douchermann]

well you shouldn't have to light it under water, so whynot just tape a match on the fuse where the match head just touches the top, and wrap the sand paper aound that.

[S25]

Visco burns underwater so get a long piece of fuse maybe?

[Douchermann]

Well he is saying that he bought a smoke bomb from a store, so it already has a 2inch long visco sticking out of it.

[THErAPIST]

As someone who has used explosives and fireworks many times, and as someone who works in a fireworks store, I was just explaining how someone could make a pull type device which is resistant to water and suck... You may not be lighting soemthing under water, but humidity and moisture can be a pyro's worst nightmare sooooooo... Go play a scenario game after it rains or something and see if you can get your smokebombs to work with a pull type ignition.. The humidity will have killed your fuse. You shall see what I mean :D

(visco is water resistant, not water proof. this is especially true if the fuse gets kinked :wink: )

[Douchermann]

I've found it to be perfectly water proof, but presure starts to affect it, thats how i went redneck fishin before....at least the 1/8" fuse works underwater.

[THErAPIST]

ive got a 30 foot roll of 1/8 sitting next to me. its not that waterproof. has a constant burn rate of 3 seconds per inch, but i have to roll it in a strip of masking tape if i want to be absolutely certain that it will burn under water.

cannonfuse.com sells some good stuff though so i guess im gonna have to go get some good 1/8 chinese from there soon. this whole taping my fuse thing is getting highly annoying

[Douchermann]

oh, i thought you meant the chineese isn't water proof, cuz thats what i have, what do you have, american? and what color if american

[THErAPIST]

na it's low quality chinese that i have. american, while more expensive, is pretty waterproof from what ive seen. truth be known i havent seen very much american fuse though. it's green btw.

[Douchermann]

Oh
why don't you make it water proof, just make some nitro cellulose and dissolve it in acetone then put this fluid on the fuse. Suposedly if you have nitrocellulose based ping-pong balls you can use those instead of nitro cellulose.

[THErAPIST]

I have NC laquer. a good bit in a jar on my desk right now. it's a pain to use though when i could just spend $8 and get 60 feet of fuse.

afaik, ping pong balls are all made of nc, but it's mononitrocellulose instead of the dinitro which double base powder is made from.

[Douchermann]

I learn something every day. And yes it is a pain to coat fuses with NC laquer

[gbu-36]

Thanks ^-^ it worked great with only one fail out of 20 devices we used over the weekend. on a couple of them though I epoxied a small plastic tube of road flare igniter in between the tops of three of the smoke bombs that had been taped togather and put the fuses into the bottom of the tube, then put some 1/8th waterproof cannon fuse into it with the road flare tube dealeo.. then covered the whole unit with that spray on plastic coating stuff. After adding your pull device idea the unit functioned in a freaking torrential downpour of rain. heck I was so impressed with the whole package I dont think Ill even waste any of my US m-18 smoke grenades anymore

Oh and therapist if you have any gunshows in your area you might want to consider hitting those up for fuse. I know of several people on the gunshow circut that carry fuse, blasting supplies, magnesium and all kinds of fun stuffs. I bought a 100 feet of waterproof (way good stuff from what I can tell ) 1/8th fuse for 8$usd just a few weeks ago, And a double plus is no paper trail =)

[Douchermann]

Where did you get m-18 smoke grenades?

[gbu-36]

Bought a case of them and a case of CS grenades at a gunshow a few months ago. If I recall correctly both cases where like 300$usd after I used my feminine wiles to talk the price down hehe =)

[THErAPIST]

you cheater! lol

i'm glad to hear that the pull ignition worked. i got the idea out of the improvised munitions manual (TM 31-210), but i modified it slightly so that it would work better for my needs. ive used em before, but not in a torrential downpour heh. www.cannonfuse.com sells some pretty damn decent 1.8th waterproof chinese safety fuse for not much at all and i believe i'll be buying some of that soon. gun shows arent to frequent here anymore, and when we do have em they become more and more knife shows but with a few guns thrown in for decoration...

[Douchermann]

You know, if you cash out 27 dollars (and shipping) you can get these (first kit on the page):
http://www.firefox-fx.com/kits.htm

[gbu-36]

WOW! I had never even looked into their kits, sooo much cool stuff, Im gonna be broke for awhile

[THErAPIST]

thats pretty spiffy shit. I can probably buy all the stuff myself for half that price, but that's pretty cool none the less :D

since im lazy id probably just buy the kit lol

[Douchermann]

I know this is a little late but there are a few mixtures that involve red phosphorous for friction sensitivity. There is armstrongs mixture:

Potassium Chlorate - 10
Antimony Trisulfide, dark pyro - 5
Amorphous (red) phosphorous - 1

This mixture is highly explosive, and I quote (i can't remember where from though) "A Thimble full of this mixture will challenge a stick of dynamite"
This is very dangerous to dry mix. If i get my hands on some red phosphours, and a scale that can measure down to .01 grams (im not making more than a gram of this stuff to begin with). This is the mixture inside those little party popers.

The composition on matchheads varies from safety matches and strike anywhere
Safety matches:
Potassium chlorate - ?
Antimony Trisulfite, dark pyro - ?
I could not find the ratios for these, just experiment. The thing about safety matches is that they will not combust unless they are striked on the striker, which is a mix of red phosphouros and glass. This makes a chemical reaction between the matchhead and striker.

Strike anywhere:
I am unaware of the chemicals of this, i assume the ones with a white tip have a bit of phosphourus on them, with the same chemicals in the matchhead.

[THErAPIST]

A thimble full wont come anywhere near challenging even a quarter of a stick of dynamite. this is just an exaggerated comparisson, just like the quarter stick firecracker, which is nowhere near the power or noise of a quarter stick of dynamite.

ANYWAY though:

Those little red paper roll caps used in childrens cap guns supposedly contain Armstrong's mixture but I'm unsure of this.

[Douchermann]

Yeah thats what they have in them.

[KjeXz]

Well, i've got some ideas in my head about how you could do this.
I planned this a while ago, primarily for explosive grenades, but if you can ignite a primer the same way as this to ignite whatever your smoke gren. contains, it should work allright. :)

You'd need a pipe, a heavy spring, a shotgun shell and a pointy stick. And a pin.
The concept is really simple, here's the basic outline:

The pipe is just a container for the spring. The pointy stick is going to tense the spring, and be secured by your pin. When you pull the pin out, the stick strikes the shell and ignites the powder.

Remember, this is all theoretical, and for educational purpouses ONLY!
I do not guarantee that any of this will work, and I refrain from all responsibilities regarding your or others' health.

[THErAPIST]

actually, that's a very rough outline of how ragnar benson made his pullpin type grenades in his book about home brew explosives. I have the book, I'll scan the section about the grenades and put it up here if anyone would like me to.

[KjeXz]

I'd love it. Please scan it so he can inspire me. :D
Would you happen to know the ISBN number of the book? :)

[THErAPIST]

The book that I have is called Ragnar's big book of homemade weapons: Building and keeping your arsenel secure.
it is ofcourse by Ragnar Benson
the isbn is0-87364-660-6
it's published by palidin press

I will scan the grenade section soon enough and put it here

[KjeXz]

Soon enough, huh? :p

[THErAPIST]

Shit... sorry. I actually forgot all about it... I'll scan it now and then put up a link to the pics. If you want the pictures, then I'd suggest saving them because after sitting on my website's server for about a month I'll delete em.

EDIT: Second thought, to prevent you from getting only a couple of the pictures in the event that something happens to the server I put all the pictures into a self extracting zip file. The file is a .exe of course, so if your virus scanner tries to flag it, just tell the scanner to ignore the file. Believe me, I've got better shit to do with my time than lay a virus on your hard drive :p

Just decide where you want the pictures to go on your hard drive and hit extract. The file is 3.65 megs. Huge full sized pictures so that you can easily read the text and see the pictures as well as I can with the book infront of me.

[KjeXz]

great. my pc is up monday, so i'll down them then. where are the links man? :o

[THErAPIST]

shit. i went and made the file and everything and forgot to put up a link lol

click HERE (http://www.experi-mental.org/other-shit/grenade.exe)

[KjeXz]

thanks a bunch man :)

[THErAPIST]

not a problem

[KjeXz]

I've posted a picture of my idea of a pull device in the flashbang thread.

[gbu-36]

bah, I cant resolve the url for the file =(

Anyone else have it ?

I had that book ages ago but it got stolen somewhere down the line

[evilwalnut]

a *small* amount of sulphuric acid and potassium chlorate separated by a peice of wax will light a primary charge upon contact. seal the whole thing in epoxy and use parrafin wax to seal the string that will pull the separator. goodluck with your endeavors.

[THErAPIST]

that sounds extremely fidgety and somewhat unreliable... not to mention really hazardous because it's so iffie heh

[KjeXz]

gbu-36, i have the file. pm me your mail address and i'll send it to you.

[evilwalnut]

that sounds extremely fidgety and somewhat unreliable... not to mention really hazardous because it's so iffie heh


just be sure to keep it out of the sun :loser: