Healing

[Stone]

Which do you think is better, and why?

[Serix]

I rarely use chemicals to aid in the healing process, but I still think it's better than just natural healing.

Science has made available to us a wide variety of chemicals that can aid in the healing process, whether it be for a simple cleaning of the wound, make less of a scar, or to simply aid the body in repairing the dead tissue. Why is it better? The answer is rather obvious. Anything that helps obtain the goal could be considered a plus. The more advantages you have, the better your chances are. Therefore, if you use a chemical to help your body heal a large wound on say, your forearm, you are helping your body to obtain it's final goal of healing that wound. The fact alone that you are using something that HELPS increases the efficency of that which you are doing, and is therefore, better.

Excuse me if this makes little sense. I am EXTREMELY tired at the moment, and I'm now turning into bed. I'll read this over sometime tommorow and see if it makes much sense. >_>

[duiker]

It depends on the situation. Sometimes, it's better to avoid modern medicine altogether and sometimes, like in an emergency, there's no better way to go than a good lot of life-saving chemicals.

[AnotherDamnNewbie]

In the long term, it's usually better to allow the body to do its magic on itself. However, what many people fail to realize is that supposedly "natural" processes all just boil down to chemicals in the end. I prefer not touching western medicine, but I also recognize that this is nothing more than a preferential quirk on my part. Chemicals are just as good, and faster many times.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[blaksun]

Back in the day, a whole lot of people died because there was no medicine. Old age was 50, while nowadays, it's 80.

Chemical healing is better.

Although there is something to be said for the argument that people are "too clean."

v.v

[duiker]

The main reason for early death "back in the day" was either because of poor diet or widespread disease as a result of disregard for hygiene.

[blaksun]

Yeah, and I'm SURE the lack of medicine had NOTHING to do with it.

right.

v.v

[duiker]

Hey, people lived to be a hundred years before medicine was introduced. Long time ago though. Some civilizations on earth right NOW do fine without chemical medicine. Many live past a hundred and scientists have attributed it to a good diet.
Indigenous tribes all over the world lived fine without medicine. They used nature's medicine. So did the Greeks and Chinese. It is only now that modern scientists are looking to save the dying knowledge of natural medicine among native tribes. They are studying and finding to be relevant the wealth of knowledge of natural remedies that you might find in a naturopath's book.

Medicine is a remedy. Our quality of life is going downhill. Athsma, Cancer, Diabetes, Heart disease, and AIDS is on the rise. Yet our average lifespan is growing. How is this?
Our diet and lifestyle is getting worse and worse. We've become a sugar generation, but medicine is prolonging our lifetimes.

Medicine staves off death and sickness- but it does not replace healthy living.

[Adrian_Faythe]

I don't dispute the efficiency and versatility of modern chemicals, but...ever seen what they do with maggots and necrotic tissue, or leeches and reattached limbs? While drugs are becoming less and less effective for staving off even the simplest forms of the flu? I know it's not really an equal example, but in that sense, Nature's got the best remedies.

[Armalite]

Nature's remedies ARE mostly chemically based.

What next? A gallant defense of faith healing?

http://www.rotten.com/library/medicine/quackery/

Scientific method is King.

[Adrian_Faythe]

It might be jack shit in reality, but if you're desperate enough and your brain thinks something will work, seven times out of 10 it will. Placebos, man.

And they've even got these nuts who believe that honeybee stings, when applied to areas of arthritis, tension, and ache, will permanently cure it after several visits to this lady who literally sells beestings. Now THAT I don't agree with at all.

...no way would I ever do that shit.

[Armalite]

Yeah? But what about people(i.e. everyone) who's placebo effect wears off after awhile? 10 times out of 10 they awake to the realization that YES, they STILL have cancer! Utterly shocking! How could the preacher have failed?

[Adrian_Faythe]

Well duh, terminal cases won't be effective...that's a given.

[Armalite]

Oh dear god. You actually are defending it. You are aware that children born in families that practice faith healing instead of seeing doctors regularly die of simple infections and fevers, right?

[Adrian_Faythe]

...what? I never said I believed in faith healing. I said that in instances of necrosis or amputation and reattachment, Nature held better cures than antibiotics or surgery. That's the brunt of my argument, right there.

Nor am I against modern medicine at all. Just thought I'd mention those two little factoids. Overall, hospitals hold much more for everyday things than faith healing could ever dream, and that Nature couldn't concoct.

Faith healing is a crock of shit, I second that. But in certain instances, doctors look to what's worked in the past and applied it to modern living.

[Armalite]

...what? I never said I believed in faith healing. I said that in instances of necrosis or amputation and reattachment, Nature held better cures than antibiotics or surgery. That's the brunt of my argument, right there.

So you mean to say drinking herbal tea is superior to limb reattachment surgery if an raccoon decides to chew your arm off?


And you ARE aware that modern medicide, like antibiotics and surgical anaesthetic, COMES from nature. Penicillin and morphine(opium poppies) for example.

[duiker]

Oi, listen up. Natural medicine is very beneficial. And so is chemical medicine in other circumstances, or if you need to sew an arm/leg back on or to operate or something.
Both are equally important. It all depends on the situation, they can both work in harmony.

I believe in faith healing of the Christian sort, I've seen it happen.

[Armalite]

Really? Describe it.

[C.R. Ripshit]

You guys realize you are splitting hairs with this natural/chemical dicussion right?

[Armalite]

To an extent, I was trying to get at that. Just in my usually belligerent and argumentative way.

In order to discuss this in a "natural vs. chemical" context, "natural healing" must be defined. Most chemicals used in the practice of medicine are simply processed plant extracts. But its important to note that medicine is not just medication. The practice of medicine includes surgery, dentitstry, psychology, etc. So basically, it falls to stone to define natural healing.

[duiker]

A guy called Luke. Got jumped on by Ben who's notorious for breaking bones. Luke's elbow got fractured, x-rayed, etc. That night at a meeting he was healed- totally normal.

I've known a few different people with cancers and cysts that have totally disappeared after being prayed for. I've seen people [that I don't know] healed of arthritis and blindness and deafness. I vaguely remember someone in the church with kidney or liver problems that was healed (long time ago, that one). A family friend, some years ago, before we came to know them: something happened to this girl's eye. It got pushed back into her head in an accident or something. Her father prayed for her and her eye moved back into place.

About 2 weeks ago, some young guys from our church drove 8 hours to support a small church conference of about 50 people. The guys came back with an excited report of miracles and healings. The conference was centered around stepping out with the Spirit and that sort of thing.

It's incredibly exciting.

[Armalite]

What church are you in?

[.VX]

Meditation works for me most of the time. But modern science is sometimes necessary.

[odin_dax]

The body is pretty powerful on its own. Just how often we need chemicals? Is it better to hold off on cancer treatment? Is it better not to take antibiotics if you have strep throat? But why always take advil for a headache? We can take a vaccine for the flu, but the common cold we always have to wait out.

I think it depends. Too often, people rush to get medication and then don't finish the regime when they feel better. Any part of that mindset is horrible. It never hurts to see a doctor, but I believe natural is the way to go, unless it's serious. How often do healthy people get sick? Not very. If we put crap into our bodies and don't exercise, we will weaker immune systems, being more likely to be diagnosed with diabetes, cancer or some other horrible disease.

[.VX]

Exactly. In 20-30 years time everyone will be wondering why their childrne have so many allergies...

[headcase]

I'd be much, much more cautious about medication intended for mental health rather than physical. While anti-biotics are often mis-perscribed, it's not that but a deal; it's a temporary thing and you're immune system won't take too much of a hit. However, when drugs like anti-psychotics are mis-perscribed it's a different story. These drugs are often " for life" and, in the words of some some doctor friends "change who you are - turn you into a zombie". Anti-depressants, while not as destructive, are misused more often. A recent Oxford(?) study found that anti-depressants are unnecessary, bordering on useless, in all but the most extreme cases of depression. As such, they can only cause harm, dependance and genuine ill-health (metal and physical). Horror stories about anti-depressants and brief encounters with indifferent (often trainee) psychatrists abound. More medication exists than most people keep track of and many professionaly have hidden agendas (bonuses for choosing X over Y).

Personally, I'd avoid anti-depressant medication like the plague, until therapy has been done to death. Anti-psychotics seem to mean the end of you're personality.

[SHooTKiLLWiN]

im gonna take a shot and say natural healing can be linked with herbal healing. which to me. is weed. which heals all.


stay high.

[odin_dax]

I agree, headcase. I was prescribed anti-depressants when I was 19. I said "fuck this, I'm just a kid trying to find some meaning", so I just took little steps exploring my interests and got out more. End of "depression."

Based on my own experience, I think depressed people are full of shit and just need to start doing something with their lives.

[.VX]

Anti Depressants are just placebos. They do nothing.

[headcase]

Um... no.

[.VX]

Please explain.

[headcase]

You make a stupid, groundless comment and you want me to explain why? Does no one on the forum know how to argue? Sometime I wonder why I bother with these people.

[odin_dax]

You make a stupid, groundless comment and you want me to explain why? Does no one on the forum know how to argue? Sometime I wonder why I bother with these people.

"Hey, kettle, guess what? You're black!"

[headcase]

I could say the same thing about that. I've demonstrated how I dominate you in arguements and you either try to attack me or come up with something like "OMG, lol, lyk i dont tink so!!!1". I think my post in the flame lounge shat in your sheets badly enough that my 4 year old sister thinks your an idiot, so in your own style "lyk, n0".

And for the third or fourth time, keep your irrelevancies to the Flame Lounge. You've already degraded enough threads with your mere presence.

[odin_dax]

I see I touched a nerve. I know you could say the same about that, because you have an ego the size of the earth. And since when have you ever owned me in any argument? Answer: Never. Try to leave delusions at the door, because people do remember the idiotic things you say after short periods of time (contrary to your own beliefs). You really must be a moron if you think this has anything to do with the flame lounge, or that you think you "won" anything there because I didn't answer your stupidity with a response (hey, it spoke for itself).

If you truly mean what you say, why this post? Yours isn't in the flame lounge. One final point, if you think your presence here is so worthy of everyone's attention, then you truly are an idiot. Seriously, the only posts you seem to spew are ones that belittle others and boast your holier-than-thou attitude. At least you've toned down the racist comments.

Other than that, what gives? Why are you such an asshole? I know I'm one of the few that doesn't put up with your shit here, maybe that's why you always on the gun ready to jump everything I say, but please just take a moment one time, look in the mirror, and realize what a complete retard you really are, as we all see you, and accept that you're not always right. In fact, you hardly ever are unless you're agreeing with someone else.

This isn't a question of flaming, logic, or any diatribe you wish to label it. Simply put, I don't like you. You're an egotistical asshole who thinks he knows all about all. It gets old, headcase. One day, perhaps, you'll grow the fuck up and venture life off the keyboard. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this board that feels the same way about you. Why does every argument involve you? Seriously, have you ever considered that? Why is it always about you?

Don't take your shit life out on us, headcase.