chemistry student

[crazy white guy]

I want to learn about chemistry

I just started learning it in school and want to get into bigger things

I want to know how to make things like meth, C-4, nitroglycerin, plastics and the sort

I have "Chemistry Second edition - Stanley R. Radel/Marjorie H. Navidi"

it covers what i think is the fundamentals

should I Do all the work in this textbook so that i understand it?

Or should I work from experiance?

whats your advice for an un-and-coming chemist rorta?

[Nemesix]

well im no scientist ;) but my advice to you is to read the text from cover to cover. if its a school textbook then it will have sample problems for you to practice on and these are invaluable to your learning and understanding. The book will only give you an understanding of the wide concepts having to relate to chemisty, i dont think it will outright tell you "how to make so and so step by step" imo after reading and understanding this text, start searching on the internet for instructions on how to make certain compounds through household supplies. also ask your teacher what kind of labs you will be doing throughout the year. (i guarentee you will have some really neat ones in store for you). The last suggestion that i have for you is to go to your library, school or public, and check out a few other books on chemistry. remember that practice makes perfect so if you want to make such stuff as meth, C-4, ect, you probably should practice making less deadly compounds to really get a handle on this art ^.^

[Th0r]

The question is simple.

What have you made before?

You need to understand mate that you can't just read a book and make Nitroglycerin. If it were that simple you would know about it. Aside from that there is a huge chance that you might indeed kill yourself. I'm not calling you stupid but you need to know there are some dangers involved.

The way I got into explosives was starting of with "Black powder" often abbreviated to "BP". It is a KN03 [Potassium Nitrate/Stump Remover/Soluble plant food] Sulfur and charcoal mix. When people talk about gun powder this is what they are talking about.

Some other brief advice. Never read anything from Totse in the explosives section. A couple of years ago a kid read a synth for AP on that site. I don't know how, but he killed himself and injured two of his l337 buddies.

Be careful.

[.VX]

I thought the actual Synth was one of the few accurates ones on there, but the kid just wasn't exactly an experienced chemist.

[Th0r]

Phone wasn't. People admitted it afterwards.

The thing was it was clear he followed the synth pretty much word for word. And because the synth was not 100% correct, I believe the AP was more sensitive than normal. Thus Phone was killed.

Internet synth's have a bad habit of going wrong.

[.VX]

Phone wasn't. People admitted it afterwards.

The thing was it was clear he followed the synth pretty much word for word. And because the synth was not 100% correct, I believe the AP was more sensitive than normal. Thus Phone was killed.

Internet synth's have a bad habit of going wrong.

Yeah... Although, with half a brain, you could get some easily obtainable science e-books and work a lot of it out yourself.

[Nemesix]

ya, thats true. you just cant only rely on some random website. "Billy Bobs Napalm Recepies" haha. if your unsure about a website i would deffinitely say compare it to another website, but overall books are probably better sources.

[REL0AD]

I've made meth before, however; I strongly advise you to start off making crack before you go any where near meth production - sure you hear alot of people make it but it is a dangerous procedure.

[DoubleTShiftty]

Don't pay any attention to the 'Anarchists Cookbook' or similar type text's either...

If your planning on making things like Meth then being able to actually come up with a decent product is only half of the battle. Keeping a low profile whilst doing it, and making sure you are extremely careful not to so much as hint at your operation to anyone, is the other half of the battle.

[Th0r]

The weaponry section on the original ACB is fantastic. I felt anyway, Powell lists his sources and many of the books are respectable and informative...

Nothing else is worth looking at, I mean the drug section is just stupid, the electronics and sabotage is rapidly going out of date. And the explosive section... That is just dangerous.

Apparently many people have died as a result of Powell's Mercury Fulminate and Nitroglycerin synths.

The second Cookbook entitled the "Jolly Roger 2000 Revised Cookbook" or something to that effect should be avoided. It mentions if you are a moron do not use it. Even if you aren't a moron don't use it! The chemistry and other stuff included is complete crap. If you can even call it Chemistry. Before the part of the forum went down. De Rerum Omnis, had an Anarchist Cookbook revision going on. We covered a lot of ground...

[DoubleTShiftty]

The weaponry section on the original ACB is fantastic. I felt anyway, Powell lists his sources and many of the books are respectable and informative...

Nothing else is worth looking at, I mean the drug section is just stupid, the electronics and sabotage is rapidly going out of date. And the explosive section... That is just dangerous.

Apparently many people have died as a result of Powell's Mercury Fulminate and Nitroglycerin synths.

The second Cookbook entitled the "Jolly Roger 2000 Revised Cookbook" or something to that effect should be avoided. It mentions if you are a moron do not use it. Even if you aren't a moron don't use it! The chemistry and other stuff included is complete crap. If you can even call it Chemistry. Before the part of the forum went down. De Rerum Omnis, had an Anarchist Cookbook revision going on. We covered a lot of ground...

Your right, most of the Electronic type articles are seriously outdated, for obvious reasons.
I haven't read over it in some time, however, but I did enjoy a few parts of the ACB, the 'systems' for various aspects of gambling and betting always made good reading, as far as I can remember.

[Th0r]

I re-read a lot of the sabotage articles. There is no way you could lock pick a car like Powell shows you in the ACB. Not now anyway. Also there is tons of bullshit on how sugar will disable a car... :saroll:

As for the drugs I wonder how many kids actually did try to smoke Banana skins?

[DoubleTShiftty]

I re-read a lot of the sabotage articles. There is no way you could lock pick a car like Powell shows you in the ACB. Not now anyway. Also there is tons of bullshit on how sugar will disable a car... :saroll:

As for the drugs I wonder how many kids actually did try to smoke Banana skins?

Me and my brother where intent on drying out the Banana skins for a year and smoking the left over when I was about 13. :bigeyes:


Not that it worked out...

[Th0r]

The elusive Banandine eh?

I told many a people about how it was the greatest hallucinogenic known to man. Nothing better like wannabe-druggie teenagers...

[.VX]

Don't pay any attention to the 'Anarchists Cookbook' or similar type text's either...



We know...
Although, it's still an interesting read, I just would never try anything in there without cross referencing it.

[REL0AD]

I like the whole idea of the ACB & JollyRoger but like you all say, it's full of shit.

We should make our own type. I think we once tried it before.

[Th0r]

Even that would have errors in...

[DoubleTShiftty]

Even that would have errors in...

That's true, but anything would be safer to follow than the ACB.

[crazy white guy]

im looking for theory as well as practice

not just a kid wanting to make meth =P

[Th0r]

What do you mean by theory?

If I were you I would keep to chemistry books yet read as much as possible regarding chemistry and explosives. You need to understand the principle of chemistry and explosives...

Such as what certain chemicals are used for and what they are packaged with, what chemicals are worthless to you etc...

Read. Read. Read. The best advice you will ever get regarding explosives...

That's true, but anything would be safer to follow than the ACB.

Of course it is, it is not just about safety, and the overall quality of the synth...

There are some idiots [Commonly referred to as k3wlz] who don't understand that explosives are volatile thus dangerous... I think the most dangerous thing would be for some idiot teenager to blow himself and other peoples property up. Now many parents would be like "It was his own fault he is dead!" [My parents response...] but some would obviously be like "Sue the bastards they killed my Johnny"...

Hardly any lawsuits actually succeed because most judges are intelligent enough to realise that these children [Because lets be honest they aren't anything more than that]are responsible for themselves and this site and the people who have contributed to a Cookbook are not responsible for them. Thus removing us of any liability...

Even if it did not have any Synths included it could still contain inaccuracies...

I mean things from the Cookbook became Urban Legend and lie so far down that it is virtually accepted on the Internet that sugar can take out a car and look at the inaccuracies from films...

It is now accepted among most people that cars take two seconds to hotwire and it can be done through the use of several [non-existent] wires... E-Ugh Wrong!

[headcase]

As a rule of thumb, people interested in explosives seem to have a better grasp of chemistry than those interested in drugs. A0tu was a good resource for knowledgable-but-not-uptight (explosive) information with an emphasis on explaining the chemistry but it's been offline for a while.

Once you have a general background in chemistry from classes and your school books, I'd look into the specific processes involves in whatever you're doing. There's too much chemistry to learn everything. At least, in any practical timescale.

[Th0r]

Headcase, A0tu is back...

A0tu.com :)

Also if obtaining the actual chemicals becomes a problem there's always your schools chemistry department ;)...

[death11284]

Heh, yeah I've been gone from a0tu for awhile, I guess it's been gone from me too.

Anyways, if you're extremely interested in the theory, and you have a basic grasp on fundamental chemistry, I have a book you may be interested in. Sorry if I'm not supposed to upload this here, if so just delete it..

I'm not really sure where I got it, or I'd give credit.

This book was understandable to me, though advanced, after taking chem II honors in high school.

The Organic Chemistry of Explosives by J. P. Agrawal and R. D. Hodgson:
http://rapidshare.de/files/39107490/Organic_Chemistry_of_Explosives_2007_.pdf.html

Anyways, in my honest opinion I don't think it really matters what you start with, hell I started with AP. The thing is, respect it, treat it like something that can kill you at the slightest shock..
Always keep your synthesized explosives cold, unless it's nitroglycerin..make sure you use thermometers to check the temperature of nitrations, etc. and you shouldn't have any trouble.

Stay away from AP, if you're going to make it, make HMTD instead.

I'm just trying to say, if you're safe about it, you probably won't get hurt, there is no such thing as TOO cautious.

[davey_crockshit]

if i were to make anything of the kind, (which i wont) i would be certain to take every safety precaution imaginable. gloves, goggles, adequate ventilation, absent neighbors, ingredients bought with cash from regular stores if possible, or maybe synthesized if not. further, i would only make very small amounts, not store any, test very discreetly, and most importantly, not tell anyone what i had done online or off.

[death11284]

Then you should be fine, with the pragmatic application side there really isn't too much to learn. With the theoretical side, that book is going to teach you what you need. The purpose of the "real" side is simply the rush, fun, experimentation, etc.

Make sure you find a pretty desolate place for your experiments however..

Anyways, if you have questions you can PM me, for my decent knowledge.

[Th0r]

Like Death I cannot stress the importance of an isolated testing place for your explosives.

It could get you caught, plus as explosions in urban areas have proven it is dangerous...

[SWIM[USA]]

Go for it...since you actually asked if you need to understand the fundamentals prior to making C-4. Are you an idiot or do you just like to act like one? :crazy:

[crazy white guy]

i know people who have made acid with only grade 12 chemistry. They killed a few homeless people in the process but they did it. They didn't know all of the info they needed to understand what they were doing but they still managed to successfully make one of the hardest illegal syntheses. I think i could get away with having only a basic knowledge of chemistry as long as i know the processes in which the chems are made.

[death11284]

;20296']Go for it...since you actually asked if you need to understand the fundamentals prior to making C-4. Are you an idiot or do you just like to act like one? :crazy:

I could make C-4 without fundamental knowledge..it wouldn't be difficult.

It's simply a mix of PETN and RDX plasticized with isobutanol or something, I think the ratio is 75% RDX to 25% PETN..don't quote me on this, I'm just trying this off the top of my head, saw it on roguesci awhile ago. Oh and I think symtex is the inverse (ratio-wise) of that. That's why semtex is less reliable so I've read.

Provided you could obtain the reagents (which isn't all that difficult, but even if it is doesn't require fundamental knowledge) it wouldn't be all that hard.

It's more of a "following instructions" matter than a "fundamental knowledge" matter.

-end of my e-peen extension

[crazy white guy]

yeah theres a little guide on ghetto C$ mixes in a ragnar benson book that i was looking at the other day. It isnt a very good mix in truth. the putty would decay withing a month or two If exposed to oxygen/reactive gasses. I think that would be my first choice seeing as its easy and fun. And im thinking of making a little clock spring timer in school for use in a grenade.

[death11284]

Wait, it isn't a very good mix? Are you referring to the mix I said or the "ghetto" one? Because like I said, I'm pretty sure the mix I said is the same composition as commercial C4, which I'm pretty sure doesn't decompose like that.

[crazy white guy]

no sorry about not being specific. I meant that the ragnar benson mix wasn't the best quality. If you use the proper procedure when storing it should keep for as long as the package stays undamaged. but as soon as the mixture hits oxygen it, it starts to decay. im not sure if we are talking about the same mix.

[davey_crockshit]

Provided you could obtain the reagents (which isn't all that difficult, but even if it is doesn't require fundamental knowledge) it wouldn't be all that hard.


actually, obtaining rdx and petn is probably quite difficult as these are both military grade high explosives.

[Th0r]

The Ragnar Benson book features a chemical called ANNM. It was used in the Oklahoma City Bombing of 1995. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was where McVeigh got it from...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3ea24_explosives-homemade-c4-video-ragnar_extreme

Check this Synth video out!

[death11284]

actually, obtaining rdx and petn is probably quite difficult as these are both military grade high explosives.

Actually, the synthesis for both isn't overtly complicated. However this is true of any synthesis, as long as your PATIENT and follow instructions TO THE LETTER. The RDX requires high concentration sulfuric and nitric acid, both can be made from toilet cleaner and nitrate salts then purified (time consuming but easy none the less). The PETN is like etn but with pentaerythritol instead (just a nitrated molecule), again the acids are easy to obtain and the pentaerythritol isn't too difficult.

isobutanol isn't hard to get AT ALL for obvious reasons.

By the way ANNM isn't exactly a synth, it's NM and AN mixed..

[Th0r]

By the way ANNM isn't exactly a synth, it's NM and AN mixed..

Fuck, I forgot the inverted Commas or whatever they are called.

It should of looked like this:

Check this 'Synth' video out!

Death, you seem to be the best person to ask, is there any way you could add a Plasticizer* to the mix, to make it a bit more like a Plastic Explosive?

You could, like in the Paladin Press movie shown make it into a shaped charge. But the entire point of C4 and other Plastic Explosives is too be able to easily mould the charge round the target for maximum effect...

*Spelling.

[crazy white guy]

in the same ragnar benson book that i read my mix

undoubtedly, this material could be satisfactorily plasticized using petroleum jelly or perhaps even beeswax

over the nex paragraph it states that the effort to plasticized using a dampener would be futile in the fact that you would only be diluting your mix beyond the point of effectiveness.

[death11284]

I've never tried to plasticize any kind of ammonium nitrate mix..I've never even heard of someone doing it.

Then again I hadn't heard of AP putty til like, 2 weeks ago. I don't really think AN/NM could be plasticized though because it's a immiscible solid/liquid mixture..AN/XX mixtures rely on a certain consistency for detonation (thus why you have to add some kind of fuel to it). Otherwise it can't properly propagate a detonation..I would thinking plasticizing it would defeat the purpose of adding the fuel oil. I don't know the physics of it very well, but I'm pretty sure that reasoning is sound.

I could be completely wrong, but I think not.

[Th0r]

Thanks for the response, Kudos to you!

[OsirisGuy429]

To the original poster -

It will be fine to follow directions for any synthesis, distillation, extractions or other chemistry procedures, however even if you follow them to the tee it is still dangerous if you don't understand what is going on. For instance not knowing that you should always add acid to either a base or water is essential and when using chemicals with strong pH's to always add slowly due to severe reactions or even off shooting a mark.

You may know how to make Meth with fertilizer, pseudoephedrine and acetone but you won't understand it. If you are like me you will only want the best supplies for the best results, which goes for anything not just clandestine operations.

I can promise you High School Chemistry is not enough, but just the basics. Chemistry will touch up into every science as well since chemistry is the building blocks of life. You will get into physics and thermodynamics. You will only begin understanding "the good stuff" when you get into Organic Chemistry at the least.

Do what I did become a Chemistry Major (Pharmacology Major hopefully soon). Take the college courses, because it will take years of practice, theory, trial and error. Plus college chem lab is so much better.

[crazy white guy]

Since i've posted the question, I have learned a lot about chemistry. I understand most of the basics of all the explosives that i have looked into and I know enough about meth and E that i would feel confident in making it in a 100g batch. I'm not planning to make it. But its always nice to know that you are awesome enough to do it.