What Morals Do You Ascribe to?

[M_Rommel]

I was thinking the other day about all the preposterous moral beliefs that people claim to hold, only before being shown to be total hypocrites (e.g. Ted Faggerd). :)

That said, what ethical beliefs do y'all actually live by? For instance, I'd have to say that I'm a pretty amoral person, but I still have things that I think are "good," and things that I think are "bad."

On the most basic of levels, things like sex, drugs, music (that isn't crap) are good, because of the fact that they allow me pleasure. Kicking thorny plants, pulling my fingernails off with pliers, etc. are bad because they cause me pain. These things can be lumped together under hedonism, basically.

Then there are things that I pursue because I just think that they're good, that involve pleasure only indirectly. For instance, I enjoy reading to learn more about topics that I'm interested in.

So what are your ethical beliefs? Don't respond with crappy reasons, plz. :P

[UKSWAT]

Your moral standards don't work as many people become hypocrites. A pimp on Jerry Springer claimed it was moral to be prostituting other women because he didn't feel immoral. The women clearly weren't happy.

[RoundElephant]

I believe harming innocent old people and their finances is off limits. Also killing an innocent for anything less then 1 million is something I would refuse to do.

[davey_crockshit]

harming innocents generally, especially if they've tried to help you.

i heard this one kid describe how he had faked a seizure in front of this guy. his friends said "put something in his mouth or he'll bite his tongue off like your wallet" they then stole the guy's wallet.

assholes.

[odin_dax]

I was thinking the other day about all the preposterous moral beliefs that people claim to hold, only before being shown to be total hypocrites (e.g. Ted Faggerd). :)

That said, what ethical beliefs do y'all actually live by? For instance, I'd have to say that I'm a pretty amoral person, but I still have things that I think are "good," and things that I think are "bad."

On the most basic of levels, things like sex, drugs, music (that isn't crap) are good, because of the fact that they allow me pleasure. Kicking thorny plants, pulling my fingernails off with pliers, etc. are bad because they cause me pain. These things can be lumped together under hedonism, basically.

Then there are things that I pursue because I just think that they're good, that involve pleasure only indirectly. For instance, I enjoy reading to learn more about topics that I'm interested in.

So what are your ethical beliefs? Don't respond with crappy reasons, plz. :P

If you're going to ask such questions, I would suggest being a little more neutral in your opening... If you define your own "ethics" as "sex, drug and music that doesn't suck", then I think you miss the point of your own question. Everybody defines what those three mean definitely. I think you need to go deeper than that. Ethics and morals are more universal, and usually have some societal reasoning behind them. How is music an ethical issue anyway?

Your entire post is more an example to part of an answer to the question you're trying to ask.

[Th0r]

harming innocents generally, especially if they've tried to help you.

i heard this one kid describe how he had faked a seizure in front of this guy. his friends said "put something in his mouth or he'll bite his tongue off like your wallet" they then stole the guy's wallet.

assholes.

I don't mean to be a total fucking twat or anything but surely that's asking for it.

I don't 'ascribe' to Morals as such. I look at the situation and carry out and Judge what is right. I don't believe there is any Definite Moral action that can be taken in response to something. Every situation is different.

[odin_dax]

I don't mean to be a total fucking twat or anything but surely that's asking for it.

I don't 'ascribe' to Morals as such. I look at the situation and carry out and Judge what is right. I don't believe there is any Definite Moral action that can be taken in response to something. Every situation is different.

Indeed, the best example of this is abortion. Pro-lifers should be able to admit certain cases where it's better to abort than have a child born into drugs/AIDS/incest/etc.

[RoundElephant]

Unfortunately there are many pro-lifers that want ALL fetuses to be birthed, even the ones that will die of a horrible painful disease before they turn 7.

[davey_crockshit]

generally speaking, a society or group where people have the expectation of not being screwed over is better to live in. victimize too many people and they become wary. assholes are wary anyway because they think everyone thinks like they do so preying on them does less damage.

besides, assholes usually have more money.

generally, if someone is just doing what they have to do to try to get through life, I won't touch them. i tend to be very forgiving of honest mistakes as i've made plenty myself. deliberately cross me and show no remorse, and the wheels start turning in my head and well they should.

i have this thing about wanting to feel like i deserve everything i have. its one of the main reasons i don't steal. like i've said before, i'm mostly here because i think its a good thing to know how to do things like this in case i'm ever forced to. others think differently and i accept that.

[M_Rommel]

Your moral standards don't work as many people become hypocrites. A pimp on Jerry Springer claimed it was moral to be prostituting other women because he didn't feel immoral. The women clearly weren't happy.

I'm unsure exactly what you mean by this...how does hypocricy tie into my morals not working.

[M_Rommel]

I don't mean to be a total fucking twat or anything but surely that's asking for it.

I don't 'ascribe' to Morals as such. I look at the situation and carry out and Judge what is right. I don't believe there is any Definite Moral action that can be taken in response to something. Every situation is different.

I'd agree with you in regards to each situation being different, but surely there are general rules that undergird your decision-making process...right?

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

The only one i really stick to is
Each man to his own.
Which means to me is every person has there own way of doing things and there own little quirks which may conflict with mine.

[Th0r]

I'd agree with you in regards to each situation being different, but surely there are general rules that undergird your decision-making process...right?

Not so much rules, as opposed to beliefs.

Let's look at Abortion. If a Woman wanted an Abortion and I had to grant her a Decision I would look at the circumstances of Conception and the Babies Welfare Post-Birth and then look at my own beliefs, before coming to a decision.

[odin_dax]

Not so much rules, as opposed to beliefs.

Let's look at Abortion. If a Woman wanted an Abortion and I had to grant her a Decision I would look at the circumstances of Conception and the Babies Welfare Post-Birth and then look at my own beliefs, before coming to a decision.

Given the scenario you gave yourself, I don't know how you can separate the two.

[M_Rommel]

Not so much rules, as opposed to beliefs.

Let's look at Abortion. If a Woman wanted an Abortion and I had to grant her a Decision I would look at the circumstances of Conception and the Babies Welfare Post-Birth and then look at my own beliefs, before coming to a decision.

Okay, so I am assuming that given differing circumstances, you might, on the one hand, choose an abortion, and on the other, choose against such. What I was getting at was the fact that there would be underlying rules for deciding under what circumstances to go with one decision or another.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'd guess that most educated adults don't assume moral issues to be wholly black and white, as they are commonly thought of in the more simplistic examples of ethical dilemmas. What I wanted to discuss with this board thread was what would be pertinent information for deciding on courses of action. Things like: whether other people's feeling factor into moral decisions, yes they do/no, they do not, and why; whether good actions are good in and of themselves, or if they are good by way of good consequences, etc.

[Vein]

I don't do anything that doesn't help me in some way. I do things that help me, even if it hurts someone more than it helps me (of course hurting someone can hurt me, but not usually). Furthermore, I don't care what other people do (abort, murder, etc.) so long as it doesn't affect me.

[Darkhunter]

I was thinking the other day about all the preposterous moral beliefs that people claim to hold, only before being shown to be total hypocrites (e.g. Ted Faggerd). :)

That said, what ethical beliefs do y'all actually live by? For instance, I'd have to say that I'm a pretty amoral person, but I still have things that I think are "good," and things that I think are "bad."

On the most basic of levels, things like sex, drugs, music (that isn't crap) are good, because of the fact that they allow me pleasure. Kicking thorny plants, pulling my fingernails off with pliers, etc. are bad because they cause me pain. These things can be lumped together under hedonism, basically.

Then there are things that I pursue because I just think that they're good, that involve pleasure only indirectly. For instance, I enjoy reading to learn more about topics that I'm interested in.

So what are your ethical beliefs? Don't respond with crappy reasons, plz. :P

I just do what I feel like. My morals say if I'm happy then fuck other people.

I know I'm selfish

[odin_dax]

I just do what I feel like. My morals say if I'm happy then fuck other people.

I know I'm selfish

I think that goes beyond selfish.

[M_Rommel]

I think that goes beyond selfish.

Uber-selfish? :laughing:

[Vein]

Ja. Das ist uber-schlecht.

[Darkhunter]

I think that goes beyond selfish.

Eh I'm a closed human being where unless I get something in return fuck other people. Being a nice person has screwed me over so many times its not even funny.

[headcase]

Yeah, nice guys finish last, but so do assholes.

Anyway, this thread is kinda shallow. I wish I had to time nowadays to write extensive walkthroughs on philosophical subjects but I simply don't. And besides, I already have written one on this subject elsewhere. So I'll just siggest an idea and see where other people take it;

Morality is shifting; decided by the times and the culture moreso than anything else.

[paninvmuthafuckinass!]

Don't snitch. Only moral I really stick to. The rest I couldn't give a fuck about though.

[Th0r]

I'll happily Rat someone out if it suits my needs at the time. I don't Rat out Pyro's though. Some code of conduct I made whilst Semi-Drunk with a bunch of friends.

[odin_dax]

I think it really depends on a case by case basis. For the most part, if it doesn't harm anybody, I won't snitch. Again, for the most part, if someone I care about (including myself) is in danger psychically, mentally or financially, then I'll snitch or take it into my own hands.

[DoubleTShiftty]

I won't grass on anybody, even if they grass on me, or lie to try and get themselves out of trouble. They will always get what's coming to them, but in my 'world' the Courts and the Police will never be the answer. It's the way I have been brought up.
In my experiences the Police or the courts can NEVER provide people with the justice they deserve.

Aside from that I have 'morals'. I'd never target vulneable/old people, I think people that do that will NEVER be able to recieve the punishment they deserve, if I was to steal, I wouldn't do it from a small corner-shop type thing, because the people working there find it hard enough to earn a living as it is. Innocent people are avoided as much as humanly possible. Rape and anything 'paedophile' like is also a big NO, if I knew of anybody that was a rapist or a convicted paedophile I would do as much as I possibly could to ensure they live the rest of their lifes in total misery, fuck their human rights.

They are the main things I live by, obviously certain 'rules' that I have can be flexible, given the circumstances but some I AM NOT, under any circumstance, flexible with.

[Mr.A]

My ethical beleifs are simple to start with. I believe in Good and Bad. I think I made a thread on this actually.

Snitches usually end up dead or wanting to die, so I'm not so sure yet where I stand on that. :nana:

[icharianchem]

Before anyone points it out Id like to preface this by saying I dont always do what I want in retrospect. I sometimes do things i hate. That said the morality i ascribe to is informed by my Jeudeo Christian upbringing, Zen Buddhism, Native American Black Road, and Mystics from everywhere. My goal is to remove myself from the center of my focus. To put others before myself. Now this is not pacifism or non-violence. If some one hurts a child and i see, there'll be a shitstorm. To this end i have found that I worry less, and people take care of me cuz I take care of them and I am never in need.

[Mr.A]

Before anyone points it out Id like to preface this by saying I dont always do what I want in retrospect. I sometimes do things i hate. That said the morality i ascribe to is informed by my Jeudeo Christian upbringing, Zen Buddhism, Native American Black Road, and Mystics from everywhere. My goal is to remove myself from the center of my focus. To put others before myself. Now this is not pacifism or non-violence. If some one hurts a child and i see, there'll be a shitstorm. To this end i have found that I worry less, and people take care of me cuz I take care of them and I am never in need.

I get that. You mentioned Zen Buddhism. Why your preference over regular Buddhism?:help: Myself, used to like the Zen Buddhist thoughts and ideas better, but nowadays I think I prefer the Buddhists'.

[Mr.A]

I choose both.

I'm am slightly confused though, is that your foundation on which you build all other of your ways? It's not a bad one, hahah, just forward.

[Abrazaderas]

I have no morals whatsoever. i don't think there is any special reason i should abstain from murder, rape, lying, acting ungrateful and cowardly and any other thing you could think of. and yet, i have no desire to do those things 99.9 percent of the time. i really do enjoy playing the role of generous, honest, honorable, chivalrous... but i don't lose site of the fact that for me, moral behavior is a form of vice. a bad habit i really ought to kick.

And at the bottom of it all, at the very core of my relations-processing nexus, lies side by side, a intense hatred of EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE, a manic desire to destroy and kill and torture for it's own gleeful sake, and next to it a gentle, peaceful love of everyone, a compassion and joyful kindness that is no less perplexing then it's evil twin.

I am fucked up in the head, probably, and will come to a bad end. i think i was born to hang.

[The Jinn]

I would expect a fair number of the members here to be amoralists. :)

[CommonPlaceTool]

Well, humans are naturally alright moral wise, some sort of brain coding or whatever. Then some that aren't realize the shit murder, rape, and all that get you into. The rest are just fucked up people.

Lets see, for me, I'd do whatever the fuck I want to the Catholic church or any Islam man... because I find Islam evil, along with the Catholic church.

Other than that... it's all situational. I have no problem with drugs or sex. I don't give a fuck if anyone's gay. These don't really count as morals though...

Fuck... well I'm nice to women... and I... erm... well I don't like animal abuse I guess...

That's about it.

[RoundElephant]

Well, humans are naturally alright moral wise, some sort of brain coding or whatever. Then some that aren't realize the shit murder, rape, and all that get you into. The rest are just fucked up people.

Lets see, for me, I'd do whatever the fuck I want to the Catholic church or any Islam man... because I find Islam evil, along with the Catholic church.

Other than that... it's all situational. I have no problem with drugs or sex. I don't give a fuck if anyone's gay. These don't really count as morals though...

Fuck... well I'm nice to women... and I... erm... well I don't like animal abuse I guess...

That's about it.

What do you have against Catholics and Muslims?

[Th0r]

What do you have against Catholics and Muslims?

For Catholic's I can imagine it would go something along the lines of the Vatican's total failure to deal with the endemic of priests commuting criminal behaviour, the fact Catholicism advocates complete hypocrisy, is totally anti-abortion and the fact the Vatican has masses of assets that sit there accumulating wealth whilst people in Africa and elsewhere starve. Remember, they're 'God's' people.

Islam is comprised of decent people and fundamentalists. Decent people fuel the fire of correctness, whilst fail to acknowledge or deal with the rampant amount of Muslim's engaging in radical activities. I see Muslim's in the UK engaging in that kind of behaviour every single day. It's regrettable and deplorable.

The fact also that 'peace loving' and 'respecting' Muslim's want to build a religious centre a block away from Ground Zero. Yeah, I can understand why they're not the most respected and revered bunch.

[The Jinn]

For Catholic's I can imagine it would go something along the lines of the Vatican's total failure to deal with the endemic of priests commuting criminal behaviour and the fact the Vatican has masses of assets that sit there accumulating wealth whilst people in Africa and elsewhere starve. Remember, they're 'God's' people.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/catholic-church-gives-25k-for-priest-robert-fullers-release/story-e6frf7l6-1225761288138

[CommonPlaceTool]

With Islam, it's mostly what Th0r has said.

I have no problem with Muslims who ADAPT their religion to our society (aka, ignore half of the Koran), but over all it is a mean religion made by a power hungry man.

[odin_dax]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

A lot of information on their hypocrisy. Too bad most Muslims are too uneducated to read... Maybe the men just like control. Whether you believe in a god, follow a religion or not, Muhammad was obviously not a prophet. It's amazing how calm he was early in life, then later became radical when he had more power. He even contradicts himself by changing words allegedly given to him by Allah, which was supposed to be unalterable. Amazing stuff what that guy did...

[clockworks]

I'm fairly uncertain of my own moral beliefs. I ascribe this uncertainty to my dad getting gunned down when I was young. The fact that humans are capable of such acts kind of makes me apathetic to a lot that goes on around me... that is, unless it is violence towards women or children.

I cannot tolerate violence directed towards those two groups. Now, let me clarify that statement just a bit. Anyone who directs violence towards a defenseless person draws my hatred, but if that violence is directed towards women or children in particular, I have a tendency to go batshit insane. I feel that males can suck it up and deal. For instance, better my dad than my mom. He did his part in keeping his family safe. But a female or a child doesn't have the same capacity as an adult male has in terms of dealing with threatening situations.

As for organized religion, they are all run by hypocritical pedophiles.

[Saturday]

There's a difference between what someone understands to be moral and how they act as a result of their classifications. I believe morality is ones ability to follow what they understand to be moral. That does not mean that you can just say "I think killing isn't amoral" and have a license to kill, but if you truly believe that killing is wrong and kill anyway, you are amoral, by definition.

I hate to pull the relativity card, but it really is all relative. Some people believe it would be immoral to kill a person who is beating another person to death in an alleyway, while others believe that one immoral act does not give way for another. That being said, if someone fucked with my family or close friends, I would wipe everything on this earth that they care about and give them time to suffer, then take them out.

One last thing... I think it is impossible to realy gauge morality at this point because I honestly have a hard time seperating morality from fear of repercussions. I don't kill people because I think it is wrong, but I don't fear feeling guilty as much as I fear BEING guilty in a court of law.

Empathy is the only natural form of morality.

[tram]

I base my ethics and morals on my beliefs and goals in life, if what i do helps me to achive those i should do them.

examples:

I whouldnt kill a random person on the street for money.

I whould however kill a rapist/pedo/nazi/police on the street for free.

But then again theres also an (necessary) egoistic factor, i whouldnt kill any of those characters because of the fear of being thrown in jail and for what this whould mean for the people around me and what they whould think of me.

[RoundElephant]

I base my ethics and morals on my beliefs and goals in life, if what i do helps me to achive those i should do them.

examples:

I whouldnt kill a random person on the street for money.

I whould however kill a rapist/pedo/nazi/police on the street for free.

But then again theres also an (necessary) egoistic factor, i whouldnt kill any of those characters because of the fear of being thrown in jail and for what this whould mean for the people around me and what they whould think of me.

You would kill someone purely because you disagree with their beliefs?

Nazis and police officers aren't evil. They both love their families and just want what is best for them.

I wouldn't murder a Klansmen if he rapped my cornhole raw, I'd defend myself. If I failed at defense I would scream his crimes like song bird. I would let everyone know what he did to me starting with the police.

But if he tried to rape me when I was armed I'd incapacitate him/kill him if it was necessary. I'd feel bad about the killing one though, even if he was attempting to rape me: what makes my ass v-card worth more than his life?

[Raverous]

What makes your ass NOT worth more than his life? There you are, minding your own business and this scumbag decides that your ass is his and he shall take it violently. Why does he deserve to continue living? What if his next victim dies? What if his last victim was brutally murdered after being raped and you just happened to fight him off before he could do the same to you? Why should the tax payer have to support him for the next 15+ years? If someone did that to me I would kill them. If they got away I would find them and kill them. A life for an eye.

[RoundElephant]

I'd defend myself. But I would not track him down and seek revenge.

[Abrazaderas]

if i could get away with it, i'd murder a man in cold blood for insulting me.

the way i see it, there are the weak who get into a circle and aim their pitchforks outwards, and there are the strong who seek to prey on them. neither are right, both are simply securing their own comfort. but i find the one who feeds on others to be of a higher class of human then those that huddle together for warmth and safety; they're the ones that run the government, they're the Genghis khans and the vikings.

it's not about whats worth more, value is all relative anyways. it's as simple as, you dare to injure me, i will destroy you mercilessly; that is the healthy attitude. that is proper. the mob does it as a group, the criminal and villain does it alone or in a smaller pack. there's not much of a difference between them.

[RoundElephant]

Then why on Earth would you want to join the military?

[Abrazaderas]

discipline in the small matters.

being forced into engaging socially, which i'm good at but don't do because i don't care to make the effort.

being forced into constantly without exception having to exert myself for all i'm good for.

i probably have a death wish i'm not really aware of. in fact, it's rather likely.

i think i'm well suited for the work.

i don't really feel alive unless i'm out of my mind on psychadelics or someone's trying to maul me or i'm seriously threatened by something so that i have to try so hard to succeed that i lose myself in the effort.

i get butterflies in my stomach thinking about the state of overdrive i'd go into if people were trying to kill me, and a single mistake would result in extraordinary suffering. to lose myself completely in the struggle and toil, to simply let training take over and function as a component in a well oiled machine, i think, would be bliss, right next to the terror and pain. i'm so tired. i've questioned everything, nothing lasted, nothing survived, nothing to believe in. i either need to force myself into constantly being in motion for the sheer joy of it, or die. it's as simple as that. if i don't acquire a will to live in the next couple years, i'm going to make the decision not to, and that's the end of it. so i suppose i should go visit death and see if that's really what i want or not, maybe. i don't know.

if i'm alive after the military, and i mean really alive, not just breathing, then it's time for me to start a religion or a revolution or write books or maybe just realize it's not worth anything and just find someone i can give all my love to and adopt a child and do my best to pass what i've learned on to him.

i don't know, i don't anything at all.

[RoundElephant]

The very notion of the military (being a cell in the organism of the Army, Marines, etc.) contradicts what you said in your previous post.

In other words: it seems as you think through a wolf and sheep mentality. The wolf is what you aspire to be and the sheep are the weaklings you loathe. The military's goal is to turn you into a lemming that will die because a "superior officer" ordered you to. Joining the military would leave you as a sheep not a wolf. What will probably happen in the military is you will lose a friend to an IED, shoot at nothing, accidentally kill more civilians than "insurgents", and end up with PTSD. That doesn't make you a wolf.

I think you'd be better off just hiking into the mountains with a spear on your back and a hunting knife and trying to live off the fat of the land. That would make you feel alive and give you true freedom. The military is a prison.

[Abrazaderas]

The very notion of the military (being a cell in the organism of the Army, Marines, etc.) contradicts what you said in your previous post.

In other words: it seems as you think through a wolf and sheep mentality. The wolf is what you aspire to be and the sheep are the weaklings you loathe. The military's goal is to turn you into a lemming that will die because a "superior officer" ordered you to. Joining the military would leave you as a sheep not a wolf.


i'm OK with that. so i've been the punk kid at school that hunted down popular football players i was jealous of, and humiliated them in fights. so i've been the young christian that just wants to puhraise jaysus. so i'm some guy that just exercises, writes music, and works at a bakery. so i'll be a soldier. and after that something else. i've been the sheep, i've been the wolf, and i'll be both over again a couple times again probably. i'm ok with this.

What will probably happen in the military is you will lose a friend to an IED, shoot at nothing, accidentally kill more civilians than "insurgents", and end up with PTSD

certainly not outside the realm of probability, but this is why i work out really hard, because i want to go for the most advanced unit i can get into, so my work is a bit more interesting. i'm going to go in on the ranger contract, hopefully placed in the 75th, apply for special forces ASAP. i've gone through all the books on military testing, it's safe to say i'll probably get close to a perfect score on the asvab. i'm sure a lot of you probably think i'm fucked in the head because of what i think, but practically speaking, i'm stable, think fast, i'm intelligent and resourceful, respond well to pressure, and anything that really challenges me gives me an erection. by the time i ship off to boot camp, i'll probably be at the point where boot camp de-conditions me. i can shoot very well. i don't have authority issues, in fact i find it relaxing to just do as i'm told in team environments. i have a competitive streak. i think i stand a fair chance of beating out the other candidates in the special forces elimination process.

plus, we might have a biggish war that i'd be tossed into. you never know.

or what you said might just happen and i'll take to drink following that stint. if it sucks to much i just find a way to get myself killed. no matter what happens - i can always just kill myself, right? except in the army it'd be real easy to just 'let it happen', and then my parents would be proud instead of embarrassed. although, being dead, this would not matter, i suppose.


I think you'd be better off just hiking into the mountains with a spear on your back and a hunting knife and trying to live off the fat of the land. That would make you feel alive and give you true freedom.

i will try that someday probably. i'm guessing, after i get out of the army, supposing i'm alive, i will do something else for a few years and if it really fails, and i don't find a good lover that's more then just vagina, i'm going to go be a wildman.