THE DECLINE AND FALL OF AMERICA

[raiden654]

3 links to this free for all film

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8832734866850945507

http://www.uaff.us/declinethemovie.wmv low res

http://www.uaff.us/The_Decline_And_Fall_Of_America.wmv high res

[odin_dax]

And what are your thoughts on these videos?

[DJ Poppinfresh]

The facts are undeniable, but it is taking a bit of a biased view.

Because - after all - George Bush may have made a few bad decisions, but he's made a hell of a lot more good ones.

Of course - I'm only an Australian, so what would I know? I just get annoyed at people for taking everything that the media says about ol' Bushy being a crap president and blindly abiding to it.

[odin_dax]

The facts are undeniable, but it is taking a bit of a biased view.

Because - after all - George Bush may have made a few bad decisions, but he's made a hell of a lot more good ones.

Of course - I'm only an Australian, so what would I know? I just get annoyed at people for taking everything that the media says about ol' Bushy being a crap president and blindly abiding to it.

That's the media bias in America for ya... and American ignorance.

[odin_dax]

Wow, that first first video is a load of crap. It takes known events and spins that to most extreme. But, hey, if raiden found this in his research, it must be true.

[raiden654]

nope this is all speculations. jus wanted to know what the public thought about it. i'm not gonna beleive any of the conspiracy stuff other than 9/11 being a hoax until the 2008 elections. people say they are gonna be cancelled so if they are not i'm gonna stop all my conspiracy altogether and get back to other things before then. if so then i geuss all the second generation soldier gear might come in handy. i'm a colecter but all i have is 1 full uniform with backpack, bdu, belt,boots and ammo harness and no helment every thing to dold the stuff that would save ones life on the feild. theres alot of weird conspiracys like martial law and all that. but i choose only to beleive if certain things happen. so i'm waiting for the day bushe trys to cancel the elections or other things.

i got all the gear from my local army surplus.

[odin_dax]

nope this is all speculations. jus wanted to know what the public thought about it. i'm not gonna beleive any of the conspiracy stuff other than 9/11 being a hoax until the 2008 elections. people say they are gonna be cancelled so if they are not i'm gonna stop all my conspiracy altogether and get back to other things before then. if so then i geuss all the second generation soldier gear might come in handy. i'm a colecter but all i have is 1 full uniform with backpack, bdu, belt,boots and ammo harness and no helment every thing to dold the stuff that would save ones life on the feild. theres alot of weird conspiracys like martial law and all that. but i choose only to beleive if certain things happen. so i'm waiting for the day bushe trys to cancel the elections or other things.

i got all the gear from my local army surplus.

I hear a slight change of tune but I think we can both agree we don't want the worst case scenario to happen.

[DJ Poppinfresh]

i'm not gonna beleive any of the conspiracy stuff other than 9/11 being a hoax until the 2008 elections.

What conspiracy theory does that imply? Because some of those are full of crap. That one about America doing it themselves is a bit on the crazy side, but exactly what hoax are you talking about?

(I'm accually interested, not taking the piss out of you.)

[raiden654]

well i firmly beleive the 9/11 conspiracy has some truth theres way to many simalaritis between 9/11 and most controlled demolitions. however bush cancelling the 2008 elections and the fema camps and the fema trains(wich i still want to find so that i may take a peek inside)i beleive could be a hoax could not be but just in case i got some thing i'm ordering just in case its not you can never not be prepared for crazy shit like that and if it trns out to be fake then well i geuss i'll stop at all my conspiracy stuff right there and go back to my dream of becomeing a sucessful whatever the fuck i feel like.(i had actually forgot what i had wanted to do before i got into the government conspiracy stuff)

[Infinite]

There is no such thing as 'American' blood except for the Indians. That is the problem. The United States are based on ideological propositions, so they cannot simply make their people safe and happy. They must preach their ridiculous ideology to the rest of the world or they can no longer justify their existence.

Whenever there is a powerful Eurasian nation, the US treats it as criminal because it is not bowing before the ideology of Americanism and its dominance of the entire earth, which, when one sees the US as the last and best hope for the world, causes everybody who does not like the US to be treated as evil.

By the way, could everybody please make a distinction between America and the government of the United States ? The land of America is very beautiful and does not deserve to be maligned with the horrible government that claims its soil.

[odin_dax]

There is no such thing as 'American' blood except for the Indians.

I beg to differ. I have the blood of America. I'm not an Indian, but that doesn't matter. I lived in America most of my life, I was raised there, my parents were born and raised there, and my grandparents toiled the soil, my family fought in its army and marines corp, I have an American passport. If I go to any nation in the world, people will call me American, see me as an American, label me and stereotype me as an American. You, sir, are wrong. By your very logic, half the nationalities in the world shouldn't exist, and if you go far back enough, you could argue there are no genuine nationalities, by your logic.

That is the problem. The United States are based on ideological propositions, so they cannot simply make their people safe and happy. They must preach their ridiculous ideology to the rest of the world or they can no longer justify their existence.

Certainly not true. We may be one of the most vocal, if not the most, but we're no different than many other nations. Hell, look at the EU and the World Court as well. Of course, Russia is no innocent member of the world stage in regards to your statement. If you want to talk ridiculous ideology, amongst other things I will forgo mentioning, then look to your own.

Whenever there is a powerful Eurasian nation, the US treats it as criminal because it is not bowing before the ideology of Americanism and its dominance of the entire earth, which, when one sees the US as the last and best hope for the world, causes everybody who does not like the US to be treated as evil.

I see the propaganda machine still works in your country. Please, give us an example. Leave it to nearly all Euro newspapers to slander the US as well, sir. Please don't make the US out to be the lone bully or jackass, of which it is neither.

By the way, could everybody please make a distinction between America and the government of the United States ?

No.

The land of America is very beautiful and does not deserve to be maligned with the horrible government that claims its soil.

Yes, it does.

[raiden654]

damn so much bad so little good.

[Day_N_Night]

I thought i'd pick up the thread where it left off.

I beg to differ. I have the blood of America. I'm not an Indian, but that doesn't matter. I lived in America most of my life, I was raised there, my parents were born and raised there, and my grandparents toiled the soil, my family fought in its army and marines corp, I have an American passport. If I go to any nation in the world, people will call me American, see me as an American, label me and stereotype me as an American. You, sir, are wrong. By your very logic, half the nationalities in the world shouldn't exist, and if you go far back enough, you could argue there are no genuine nationalities, by your logic.

No you do not, genetically you are not "American", American is merely an identity/nationality based on national origins not ethnic or racial. Spin those words however you want you do not have the blood of America, you have the blood of Europe.

I dont care how many generations your family's been in the US or how people in different countries view you, their views can't change the reality that you are not genetically American or have the blood of America ( as in have Native American blood)





I see the propaganda machine still works in your country. Please, give us an example. Leave it to nearly all Euro newspapers to slander the US as well, sir. Please don't make the US out to be the lone bully or jackass, of which it is neither.

I beg to differ, the US claims to be a beacon for freedom and democracy but look at how the US has behaved in the past. Take Cuba for instance, the Baptista Dictorship was one that was Pro-American and was sympathetic to American (corporate) Intests. They were vehemently undemocractic aswell.

Because you ,the most powerful nation on the earth supported and was friendly to the Dictatorship, thereby keeping them in power, they let youl ot do as you will in their nation and explot it. So, the Dicatorship was kind to American corporate interests to the detriminate of the citizens and in returnt he Americans reciprocated by bolstering the regime and keeping them in power. A symbiotic relationship.

When a man named Fidel Castro seized upon this discontent and tried to bring back soverignity to his nation, you labeled him a devil, a monster.

In a Central American nation, i think it was Nicuragua, UFCO (United Fruit Corporation) had a monoply on the fruit industry and the countries rail and post. These were significant resources in this country. When a politican was elected who put the resources into the hands of the people, sot hey would benefit the people instead of an American Corporation; UFCO then lobbied the US government, alleging that they were communists and in league with Russia. The US government then responded by orchestrating the removal of the government by terroristic means. This is how the US behaves to third world countries, this is the truth wether you like it or not. Look it up.

Im not saying America is evil but certainly American style Capitalism has yielded much evil.

No

[Day_N_Night]

(Double Post) Admins please remove this post.

[odin_dax]

No you do not, genetically you are not "American", American is merely an identity/nationality based on national origins not ethnic or racial. Spin those words however you want you do not have the blood of America, you have the blood of Europe.

I dont care how many generations your family's been in the US or how people in different countries view you, their views can't change the reality that you are not genetically American or have the blood of America ( as in have Native American blood)

New research has indicated that the earliest settlers in America came from Europe, not Asia. Furthermore, since no one is actually native to the American continents, no one is entirely American genetically. This is all true based on your statements.

I am a mix. If it weren't for America, there is no way I would've come to exist. Yeah, my heritage is European, but my blood is American, whether you care to admit that or not. I'm sure that somewhere in my blood there are genetic markers that can only be found in Americans. Until that's proven or disproven, your opinion is irrelevant.




I beg to differ, the US claims to be a beacon for freedom and democracy but look at how the US has behaved in the past. Take Cuba for instance, the Baptista Dictorship was one that was Pro-American and was sympathetic to American (corporate) Intests. They were vehemently undemocractic aswell.

Because you ,the most powerful nation on the earth supported and was friendly to the Dictatorship, thereby keeping them in power, they let youl ot do as you will in their nation and explot it. So, the Dicatorship was kind to American corporate interests to the detriminate of the citizens and in returnt he Americans reciprocated by bolstering the regime and keeping them in power. A symbiotic relationship.

I don't see your point. America is a beacon of freedom and democracy, but how another country does business with them is no reflection on how we act within our borders.

When a man named Fidel Castro seized upon this discontent and tried to bring back soverignity to his nation, you labeled him a devil, a monster.

Do you even know the history of Fidel Castro????

In a Central American nation, i think it was Nicuragua, UFCO (United Fruit Corporation) had a monoply on the fruit industry and the countries rail and post.

The UFCO isn't the American government.

These were significant resources in this country. When a politican was elected who put the resources into the hands of the people, sot hey would benefit the people instead of an American Corporation; UFCO then lobbied the US government, alleging that they were communists and in league with Russia. The US government then responded by orchestrating the removal of the government by terroristic means. This is how the US behaves to third world countries, this is the truth wether you like it or not. Look it up.

The UFCO, still existing as Chiquita Bananas today, came to size by buying up rivals. That's business. How governments act towards their citizens through labor laws is still not a reflection upon the American government.

In regards to Russia, I found nothing. I do know that Communist ideals, which existed in UFCO's region, weren't aligned with the ideals of Capitalism.

The leader was thrown out due to corruption. Know your history.

Im not saying America is evil but certainly American style Capitalism has yielded much evil.

It would be irrelevant to the points, but I'd also like to state for the record anyway that many, if not all, Western nations behave this way.

[NINEBREAKER]

america is declineing. look at how many of our freedoms have gone away under the guise of terrorism. i have only heard of the 9/11 attacks and the anthrax afterwords for terrorist attacks and those were years ago. yet we stil hear about government bills and acts being passed that take away freedoms to protect us agaist terrorists.

and yet every time i hear someone talk about these acts its to protect our freedoms and yet they pass acts that take em away. dosnt this mean the terrorists are winning

[Th0r]

You Americans think you've got it bad. We have Jacqui Smith, a megalomaniac, Pseudo-dictator who is taking our liberties away en mass.

[Day_N_Night]

New research has indicated that the earliest settlers in America came from Europe, not Asia. Furthermore, since no one is actually native to the American continents, no one is entirely American genetically. This is all true based on your statements.

I am a mix. If it weren't for America, there is no way I would've come to exist. Yeah, my heritage is European, but my blood is American, whether you care to admit that or not. I'm sure that somewhere in my blood there are genetic markers that can only be found in Americans. Until that's proven or disproven, your opinion is irrelevant.

Let me guess, you're gonna claim your descended from those early European who were in North America before the "native americans" crossed over? Those "Europeans" either died off as a group in North America or were absorbed into the "native american" race.

No one gives two shits about your "unique genetic markers". IF your of European Stock then im willing to wager that those same genetic markers can be found in Europe or anyt other countries where you can find white people (Canada,Austrailia,NZland,Argentina etc)

True if it wasnt for America then you would have no existed but so what? That does not make you have "The Blood of America" What im getting from you is Patriotic bull shit. You don't identify as European that's find but that doesnt change your ethnicity or what you actually are, Your nationality is another thing though.





I don't see your point. America is a beacon of freedom and democracy, but how another country does business with them is no reflection on how we act within our borders.


How America operates outside its borders speak volumes regardless.


Do you even know the history of Fidel Castro????

Ya i know plenty.

The UFCO isn't the American government.

Go back and read what i wrote. UFCO lobbied the US gov to take out the Costa Rican (or some other central american country's gov i keep forgeting which) Government which it did using back handed tactics to distabilize it and get rid of its president who took away UFCOS monopoly.



In regards to Russia, I found nothing. I do know that Communist ideals, which existed in UFCO's region, weren't aligned with the ideals of Capitalism.

Part of the Lobbying and Propaganda campaign in the United States was to convince the US government and people that the countries Gov was in line with Russia, thus conceivably making out that country to be a naional security threat to the US. It was not however, I do admit that Socialistic Ideals existed in that country. The country was at the time of the UFCO lobbying a poor democractic country with Socialistic Principals. Nothing wrong with that.



The leader was thrown out due to corruption. Know your history.


We may be talking about a different Central American Country but the one i've beenr refering too, i beleive Costa Rica? Had its president ousted by American backed Guerrilas as a direct response to his nationalization policies. Similariy the Iran-Contra story was centered mainly around Irans nationalization of its natural resources away from
Anglo-American ownership.


It would be irrelevant to the points, but I'd also like to state for the record anyway that many, if not all, Western nations behave this way.

I can't argue with that.

[odin_dax]

Let me guess, you're gonna claim your descended from those early European who were in North America before the "native americans" crossed over? Those "Europeans" either died off as a group in North America or were absorbed into the "native american" race.

You missed the point entirely. There was no Native American race to be absorbed into. The ancient Euros were here first. When the ancient Asians crossed the ice bridge, they eventually met and mixed. There exist people in Canadian tribes with both markers.

No one gives two shits about your "unique genetic markers". IF your of European Stock then im willing to wager that those same genetic markers can be found in Europe or anyt other countries where you can find white people (Canada,Austrailia,NZland,Argentina etc)

Now you want it both ways. I'm not American for my genetic markers, but native Americans are, even though they also descended from Europe (and later, for the record, Asia).

Let's not lose sight of the main topic, "native" Americans are no more American by blood than me. Sorry, it's genetics, epi-genome, and anthropology.


How America operates outside its borders speak volumes regardless.

It sure does. We do a lot of good out there, contrary to the popularity of the Iraq war (which is going well now). Sure, there have been times when we looked out for our own interests, but less often than the opposite.

Currently, we supply more troops and aid into NATO than any other country. We also contribute the greatest amount of money into the UN and charitable organizations around the world. We also have a huge AIDS awareness program in Africa.

I don't like the realities of the world, where children are set to labor for 2 cents an hour, where the people of Mumbai live in slums and mercenaries control governments, but the realities of the world can't be solved by pointing the finger solely at American because 1) we're not the bad guys, 2) we can't police the whole world, 3) we aren't the only ones doing what you're implying, and 4) the US or any other nation can't dictate the culture of another country by force.

So, yes, American actions speak volumes outside our borders, like in WW2, and the contributions of American citizens speak volumes as well in medicine, technology and numerous other fields.

Blame us for anything you want, but blame isn't truth. It's not America's fault every time someone's life sucks.

I'm not bragging for my country, but pointing out the facts of the matter. We contribute a lot to the world, but everyone blames us and hates us. Where are the thanks for the good we've done? Well, it's just easier to have a scapegoat, and who better than the king of the hill?

[NINEBREAKER]

You Americans think you've got it bad. We have Jacqui Smith, a megalomaniac, Pseudo-dictator who is taking our liberties away en mass.

so i have heard.

[Day_N_Night]

You missed the point entirely. There was no Native American race to be absorbed into. The ancient Euros were here first. When the ancient Asians crossed the ice bridge, they eventually met and mixed. There exist people in Canadian tribes with both markers.

Those who came across that Land Bridge that once connected North America and Asia were asians, over thousands of years they dispersed all across this continent and South America aswell. The Isolation from the rest of the Asian populations caused them to become their own race due to isolation. So they weren't a distinct race when they got to NA but over thousands of years became such. I beleive there is research indicating this, i can dig it up if you would like.

This is how the modern races that we find today in the world came about today aswell, through Isolation they developed into their own groups/ethnicites.

Now you want it both ways. I'm not American for my genetic markers, but native Americans are, even though they also descended from Europe (and later, for the record, Asia).

Let's not lose sight of the main topic, "native" Americans are no more American by blood than me. Sorry, it's genetics, epi-genome, and anthropology.


No im not saying that at all, Native Americans are Natives or Aboriginals if you prefer of this continent because they as a race has lived here and developed as race for thousands upon thousands of years. It's not about Genetic markers at all. Anyway it was non of my business to tell you what you or are or are not atleast in my opinion so i apologize for that. If you say you're American that's good enough for me. I didn't mean to try and take anything away from you in that sense.


Currently, we supply more troops and aid into NATO than any other country. We also contribute the greatest amount of money into the UN and charitable organizations around the world. We also have a huge AIDS awareness program in Africa.

No complaints here.

I don't like the realities of the world, where children are set to labor for 2 cents an hour, where the people of Mumbai live in slums and mercenaries control governments, but the realities of the world can't be solved by pointing the finger solely at American because 1) we're not the bad guys, 2) we can't police the whole world, 3) we aren't the only ones doing what you're implying, and 4) the US or any other nation can't dictate the culture of another country by force.


I'm not pointing the finger at America, this thread is about America and that is what im talkinga bout. I know countries all over practice policies similar to the ones im talking about, including the one that i currently reside in.

So, yes, American actions speak volumes outside our borders, like in WW2, and the contributions of American citizens speak volumes as well in medicine, technology and numerous other fields.

Blame us for anything you want, but blame isn't truth. It's not America's fault every time someone's life sucks.

I'm not bragging for my country, but pointing out the facts of the matter. We contribute a lot to the world, but everyone blames us and hates us. Where are the thanks for the good we've done? Well, it's just easier to have a scapegoat, and who better than the king of the hill?

I'm not Railing against the Citizens of the United States. I think you have my stance confused somewhat. I'm quite sure the people over there are very generous in terms of aid to foreign countries and helping refugees come over to live in the states and contributes to all sorts of countless things etc....

Im talking about the policies of the Government here. I think you think that i hate America or think it is some sort of "great satan" which i don't. I'm pointing out facts of life here.