Scientology

[Armalite]

Quote:
-Pursues dangerous cult religions. Such include:
Satanism, Scientology, Philosophy, Paganism, Wicca,
Hinduism and Buddhism.


Lol, scientology.... such a dangerous cult.


Actually Scientology IS a cult, and is quite dangerous.

[gbu-36]

And they make fun of it in fallout 2

that sealed the deal for me

[Armalite]

Do they? I never played any of the Fallout games, but heard they kick ass.

[C.R. Ripshit]

Hmm, guess I don't really know what scientology really is.

[Stone]

Isn't it just some religion some guy created for rich people to give him all their $$$?

[Armalite]

Pretty much. L. R. Hubbard(the founder) himself talked about religion being a great business back in the 50s and shit. Originally he denied vehemently that Scientology was a religion, pushing it a science instead. Now, since he made wild claims about dianetics(the "scientific" :? basis of Scientology) being able to cure all sorts of diseases, and charged exorbitant sums for the mental "auditing" process it supposedly used to heal these diseases the IRS and FDA eventually came poking around. A bunch of things happened that were very bad for Scientology, like an FDA raid on their offices around 1963 to sieze "E-Boxes" or some similar bogus health apparatus the Scientologists had come up with. Long term battles with the Feds ensued. Finally in 1993 they were granted 501(c)(3) charitable organization tax exemption status. This may or may not have had to do with the 4000 some odd lawsuits they agreed to drop against the IRS. :D As far as I know, the US is the only country in the world that deems Scientology a bona fide religion. Most other countries view it as a dangerous cult and treat it with extreme distaste. Russia, for example, has sicced its secret service on the Scientologists for a variety of reasons, ranging from their shady business practices to their practice of falsely imprisoning people(Lisa McPherson anyone?). L. Ron himself was a bona fide madman. Among the great acts attributed to him was an illegal attack on Mexican territory that he some how achieved during his brief career as a naval officer. :lol: The religion is boring. But L. Ron himself was just unreal. Read about him sometime, his life story will have you rolling in laughter. The man was just wacked OUT beyond belief. A classic case of untreated paranoid schizophrenia.

[blaksun]

you know, for the better part of my life, I've been a scientologist, and I'd just like to say that that is the biggest load of stereotypical propaganda bullshit I have read in a long time.

just shut the fuck up, okay. none of you have any idea what scientology is, and you aren't in the position to argue it, because you have no experience with it.

There's nothing wrong with Scientology: the basic ethics of it are those of any good religion: "PEOPLE ARE GOOD, DON'T BE MEAN BECAUSE IT WILL SUCK FOR YOU, AND WHEN YOU DIE THERE IS REINCARNATION."
There is no BRAINWASHING, or anything of the sort. I'll admit, most of the scientoligsts I have experience with were pushy, but they don't force you do to anything.

and it ends so abruptly.

[Armalite]

So you believe that Scientology has a logically sound scientific basis? Have you READ any of L. Ron's books? It is patent bullshit. And if you don't believe the shit I posted, go look it up. Most of it is a matter of public record. Numerous court cases in several countries are still pending against the "Church" of Scientology. Everything ranging from tax evasion to manslaughter. Go look it up.

[gbu-36]

You'd think if they whee secure in their beliefs they wouldnt need to sue people for sneezing.


EEEEP what if they sue me ?!

[Armalite]

There is no BRAINWASHING, or anything of the sort. I'll admit, most of the scientoligsts I have experience with were pushy, but they don't force you do to anything.



I forgot to nitpick at this before. Who said anything about brainwashing? YOU did.

[Stone]

So, blaksun... What makes Scientology right? What makes it a religion at all?

[blaksun]

So you believe that Scientology has a logically sound scientific basis? Have you READ any of L. Ron's books? It is patent bullshit. And if you don't believe the shit I posted, go look it up. Most of it is a matter of public record. Numerous court cases in several countries are still pending against the "Church" of Scientology. Everything ranging from tax evasion to manslaughter. Go look it up.

I didn't study Dianetics, the science of scientology; nor did I learn how e-meters or any of their other gadgets work, but I do know that all of their healing processes - assists, which I can do :D; the purification rundown, etc - all works, because it's simple fucking logic.
The study tech, which I did learn about in-depth, is simple common sense. When you learn it, you think, jeez, really? IN A SARCASTIC TONE.
The one thing they could be accused of is profiting off of common sense, but really, they can't, because no one knows any common sense nowadays.

There is no BRAINWASHING, or anything of the sort. I'll admit, most of the scientoligsts I have experience with were pushy, but they don't force you do to anything.
I forgot to nitpick at this before. Who said anything about brainwashing? YOU did.

IT'S A COMMON STIGMA ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY, SHEESH.

So, blaksun... What makes Scientology right? What makes it a religion at all?

What makes anything a religion? Just because a bunch of people don't like it, it was formed recently, and there's no GOD, that doesn't automatically mean that it's a bullshit religion created entirely to make money.

Most of the religious ideals of Scientology, I agree with. Reincarnation and all that. That's why it's appealing to me.

[Armalite]

Notice how he completely evaded the question of Scientology's basis and the FACT that the Church of Scientology is under investigation by major world governments? Funny that you should mention the purification rundown. Isn't that where you drink raw vegetable oil and do other crazy, medically unsound shit(like OD on vitamins) in an effort to remove drug metabolites from the body? How is THAT logical? :lol: I can't stress this enough, :lol: , :lol: , :lol: . Anyone with basic pharmacological or biochemical knowledge can tell you that the purification rundown is based on utter bullshit.


Why don't you know anything about your own religion? Never read the books(prolly can't afford em)? That's interesting, isn't it? Bibles are free, even published in entirety online. The Koran aswell. Perhaps some other major religious texts. But for Dianetics...you have to pay. Revealing of motives?

Anyway. Anyone interested in proof of Scientology's quakery can read it for themselves here.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=L.%20Ron%20Hubbard/002-2286655-3256859

[Adrian_Faythe]

Don't know anything about scientology, nor do I care. Just for the record, Bibles are free because the Church has more money than God (no pun intended), aren't taxed at all for property or postage, and own every printing press they use to plug their little book of bullsh-...er, morals.

But from what I've heard here alone, I doubt I need to look much further into scientology to see it's just another bullshit religion...because that's all society needs is another one of those, let me tell you... :roll:

[blaksun]

Notice how he completely evaded the question of Scientology's basis and the FACT that the Church of Scientology is under investigation by major world governments? Funny that you should mention the purification rundown. Isn't that where you drink raw vegetable oil and do other crazy, medically unsound shit(like OD on vitamins) in an effort to remove drug metabolites from the body? How is THAT logical? :lol: I can't stress this enough, :lol: , :lol: , :lol: . Anyone with basic pharmacological or biochemical knowledge can tell you that the purification rundown is based on utter bullshit.


Why don't you know anything about your own religion? Never read the books(prolly can't afford em)? That's interesting, isn't it? Bibles are free, even published in entirety online. The Koran aswell. Perhaps some other major religious texts. But for Dianetics...you have to pay. Revealing of motives?

Anyway. Anyone interested in proof of Scientology's quakery can read it for themselves here.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=L.%20Ron%20Hubbard/002-2286655-3256859

What are you fucking retarded. I said that I used to be a Scientologist and that I LEFT; I said that I didn't have all that much experience in it, but what I do have is from the horses mouth, not this propaganda bullshit you spout.

What is the basis for any religion? You seem to evade the fact that religion is a spiritual thing, and the spirit isn't something you can touch, feel, etc etc, thus, religion is nothing but speculation. Scientology is as speculative as Christianity or Buddhism or Judaism or any other fucking religion you feel like.
I happen to prefer Scientology, AS I SAID BEFORE, because their principles are better than most other religions', and they're not as fucked up.
The purification rundown is where you drink natural organic things, take a lot of vitamins - OD on vitamins? what the fuck? oding on health? - and sweat out the drugs in your body.
And the purif isn't even that esoteric. Firefighters and volunteers that were working to clean up the wreckage of 9/11 went on the purification rundown to sweat out and get rid of all the toxic crap they were inhaling. Quite a few people do it.
Assists are employed by chiropracters and doctors everywhere - my mom works for a consulting firm that hooks doctors looking for scientology tech up with the Church.
I'm sure if doctors use it than it has at least some kind of sound base, amirite. :roll:

Oh man, seriously dude, get the fuck over the fact that Scientology, despite being a religion, doesn't have a divine being looking over them and exempting them from all material duties. Scientology has to pay for their shit as much as any other new religion does.
You keep comparing them to Christianity and other religions that've been around for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Scientology has been around for what, 30 years? They're new, so they aren't immune to the material laws that the three major religions are, and they're still the subject of the prejudice and propaganda that every single religion ever was subject to when it started.
sheesh.

[Armalite]

What are you fucking retarded. I said that I used to be a Scientologist and that I LEFT; I said that I didn't have all that much experience in it, but what I do have is from the horses mouth, not this propaganda bullshit you spout.


So we should just take your word? Even though you fail to answer the core questions, and cannot even claim to have personal knowledge ofthe basis of Scientology? And what do you mean you left? Did you recant Scientology? Why are you defending it? Are you disconnected?
Labeled a suppressive? Are you a free zoner? What's the dealio?


What is the basis for any religion? You seem to evade the fact that religion is a spiritual thing, and the spirit isn't something you can touch, feel, etc etc, thus, religion is nothing but speculation.


But scientific claims proponents of any religion may make are subject to scrutiny. And can be methodically tested and debunked. Try and argue with that one. I dare you. :)


Scientology is as speculative as Christianity or Buddhism or Judaism or any other fucking religion you feel like. I happen to prefer Scientology, AS I SAID BEFORE, because their principles are better than most other religions', and they're not as fucked up.


Examples? And define better.


The purification rundown is where you drink natural organic things, take a lot of vitamins - OD on vitamins? what the fuck? oding on health? - and sweat out the drugs in your body.


Vitamins are toxic at high levels. And no matter how much sweating you do, drug metabolites will still leave the body at more or less the same rates as they always do. True, a healthy lifestyle will accelerate this process, within the constraints of normal body chemistry and metabolism. Taking liver damaging amounts of niacin and vitamin A will not.


And the purif isn't even that esoteric. Firefighters and volunteers that were working to clean up the wreckage of 9/11 went on the purification rundown to sweat out and get rid of all the toxic crap they were inhaling. Quite a few people do it.
Assists are employed by chiropracters and doctors everywhere - my mom works for a consulting firm that hooks doctors looking for scientology tech up with the Church.
I'm sure if doctors use it than it has at least some kind of sound base, amirite. :roll:


Those are some wild claims. Canyou provide any evidence of this? Show me some linkage.


Oh man, seriously dude, get the fuck over the fact that Scientology, despite being a religion, doesn't have a divine being looking over them and exempting them from all material duties. Scientology has to pay for their shit as much as any other new religion does.
You keep comparing them to Christianity and other religions that've been around for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Scientology has been around for what, 30 years? They're new, so they aren't immune to the material laws that the three major religions are, and they're still the subject of the prejudice and propaganda that every single religion ever was subject to when it started.
sheesh.


Scientology has tax exempt status just like your local Baptist church. And they make WAY more money. Why don't they make their books publicly available?

Buddhism has no deity I'm aware of.

No religion, philosophy, or idea is exempt from criticism. Criticism does not denote "prejudice" or "propaganda." I will admit I am biased. But I present my arguments rationally, and will reveal my sources on request. Information gathering is time consuming on such a broad topic, so I will only round up my sources when we have a coherent discussion of a definable topic. Pick apart my statments, find what you want to know about, and say it clearly and calmly. No more ranting.

[Heavy_'TalMeMan]

hahaha. pwned. Fuck scientology. period. :tongue:

[headcase]

If I were a Christian, then I would believe that I was being watched over by the Trinity, and there is a Heaven and a Hell, that my prayers may be answered and my sins punished. I would believe the Lord Jesus Christ was born and died for our sins, preforming some logic defying miracles in the process. I would fully believe all this, or I would not be a Christian.

If I were Muslim, I would believe all the stupid shit that they believe (which I won't get into). Otherwire, I wouldn't be a Muslim.

If I were a scientologist, I would believe that 75,000,000 years ago, the alien emporer Xeno infested human beings souls with hundreds of invisibe spirits, which make us vulnerable to illness and deprive us of our god-like powers (L. Ron Hubbard claims to have flown to Venus and was almost hit by a train there). But, for a mere $360,000, the merciful L. Ron Hubbard will exorcise these demons for us! (What a nice guy!). We can, in every sense of the word, become omnipotent! With these philanthropic adventures, he also managed to purchase his Freewinds ship, his Celebrity Centre in Hollywood, and magnificent churches in LA and New York, all for our own good.
And as for all those who argue the blind stupidity of scientology, well it was Xeno the Alien Emperor who sent them, obviously!
Indeed, Hubbards wife was, in the 1980's, jailed for infiltrating several private and governmental agencies in order to shelve investigations and harass people.

Cite. (http://www.xenu.net/index.html)

And just out of curiosity, when I took the free personality test on Scientologies own website I failed terribly. I need to be saved be Scientology soon, lest I be captured by Xenu. Did anyone, by any chance, pass this test, to be told they don't need scientology at all?

Scientology Homepage. (http://www.scientology.org) The personality test in a big blue button on the right hand side of the page.


I try not to be abusive and argue in a mature fashion, but Scientology is a bullshit refugre for the weak minded.

Starting a religion would be a great way to make money

Some years later:
.... and I give you - Scientology!

Suspecious, anyone?

[Esophagus]

Scientology is BS. To me its just an older Da Vinci Code. L. Ron Hubbard was a sicence fiction writer, just trying to make money, and people ate it up, and started believing it. he didn't really believei t himself. The guy who wrote Da Vinci Code (Dan Brown?) has gone on record numerous times saying he just doesn't understand why people are taking him so seriously, and that all he had tried to do is write a good book. The difference? Hubbard WANTED to scam people.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Man, I'd like to start my own cult. It'd be a great story to tell the grandchildren eh?

[Esophagus]

Im down.
First, you'll need a story as to how and why you are god.

[odin_dax]

Im down.
First, you'll need a story as to how and why you are god.

Take lessons from Joseph Smith.

[headcase]

I think South Park dealt with that better then I ever could.

[Esophagus]

Two of the few episodes of South Park I've ever been able to stand watching:
"Joseph Smith is dumb dumb dumb"
"This is what Scientologists ACTUALLY believe"

[ComfortablyNumb]

Im down.
First, you'll need a story as to how and why you are god.
I already got one in the works- but itll take some major convincing to get people to latch on, though I believe it is biblically sound. here goes:

First- one of the major misconceptions about the bible is about satan- most people believe that he lives in and controls hell, but, according to the bible, God controls hell and satan is actually out and about causing mischief on earth. Now this is where my part comes in, and rquires logic- First, consider the thought of selling your soul to satan, the way I see, baptism is essentially selling your soul to god to do what he will with it, so upon giving control of your soul over to satan, yoiu automatically are exempt from going to hell (heaven to, but who cares, bunch of clouds and harp nonsense). second, assuming that the events foretold in revelation are true, and taking into account that the outcome is of course biased (seeing as it was written by one of jesus's apostles- of course jesus wins), one could logically assume that satan, despite what the bible says about him being evil and etc., might actually be a pretty good guy, because, after all, he needs to collect souls to be on his side for the whole armaggeddon battle. He would need to, for the time being at least, be nice to these souls to persuade them to fight on his side during this battle. He will also probably be welcomed with open arms by all the souls in hell which he is supposed to go release and turn into his army.... thats about as far as Ive gotten, but its a start. Now, to start combing NA and AA meetings to look for weak-willed people to join my cult.:sasmokin::sasmokin::sasmokin:

[Esophagus]

A cult that convinces people to sell there soles to Satan? I'm in! Whats the annual fee like? Not as steep as that scientology nonsense, is it?

[Heavy_'TalMeMan]

A cult that convinces people to sell there soles to Satan? I'm in! Whats the annual fee like? Not as steep as that scientology nonsense, is it?
Ooh... Selling Souls to Satan? Sounds like fun. :sgrin:
By the way.. if I join, do I get one of those funky membership cards? LOL :saevilw:

And another thing....
Your story only makes up bullshit about god and satan etc... but where's the part where YOU become GOD? I think you missed that. .....'Doh! :banghead:

[Esophagus]

He won't be either. He can just be the first man to witness the riches that come with selling your soul. And Satan's accountant.

I think we've gotten off topic.

SCIENTOLOGY!!

[headcase]

..... is bullshit. I think that arguement is done and dusted until someone offers to argue for scientology.

The problem with your satanic cult is that Satan already has a pretty bad public image. I don't think any amount of PR is going to turn that around. However, you'll be guarenteed of the support of angsty suburben teenagers whose parents "don't understand them". They're always cutting themselves and listening to Slipknot, or Korn or Marilyn Monroe and whatnot. All they need is a leader (who isn't too lost in his own self-loathing to organise them).

[Esophagus]

Angsty suburban teens listen to bad nu-metal AND marilyn monroe? I guess I'm behind on the times.

But they are indeed the wealthy ones, we don't care if Satan really IS a good guy, we just need some cash flow, with no effort behind it.

[headcase]

bad nu-metal AND marilyn monroe? I guess I'm behind on the times.

I know what I said.




:veryhappy

[odin_dax]

I already got one in the works- but itll take some major convincing to get people to latch on, though I believe it is biblically sound. here goes:

First- one of the major misconceptions about the bible is about satan- most people believe that he lives in and controls hell, but, according to the bible, God controls hell and satan is actually out and about causing mischief on earth. Now this is where my part comes in, and rquires logic- First, consider the thought of selling your soul to satan, the way I see, baptism is essentially selling your soul to god to do what he will with it, so upon giving control of your soul over to satan, yoiu automatically are exempt from going to hell (heaven to, but who cares, bunch of clouds and harp nonsense). second, assuming that the events foretold in revelation are true, and taking into account that the outcome is of course biased (seeing as it was written by one of jesus's apostles- of course jesus wins), one could logically assume that satan, despite what the bible says about him being evil and etc., might actually be a pretty good guy, because, after all, he needs to collect souls to be on his side for the whole armaggeddon battle. He would need to, for the time being at least, be nice to these souls to persuade them to fight on his side during this battle. He will also probably be welcomed with open arms by all the souls in hell which he is supposed to go release and turn into his army.... thats about as far as Ive gotten, but its a start. Now, to start combing NA and AA meetings to look for weak-willed people to join my cult.:sasmokin::sasmokin::sasmokin:

No, you're not selling your soul to God, He already owns it. Satan's only nice to get people on his side, maybe, but he suffers greatly from Daddy-syndrome. He has problems.

[ComfortablyNumb]

That's only if you assume the bible's whole truth, without making allowances for bias. Besides- if you couldnt sell your soul to satan, then what would be the point of the 1st-3rd commandments "1you shall have no other gods before me."2"You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.""3You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."- which, when taken together, implies that there are other gods to be had before god, just the bible god is jealous of the other gods (after all, how could a real god be actually jealous of a make-believe god>)

[odin_dax]

That's only if you assume the bible's whole truth, without making allowances for bias. Besides- if you couldnt sell your soul to satan, then what would be the point of the 1st-3rd commandments "1you shall have no other gods before me."2"You shall not make for yourself an image, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.""3You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments."- which, when taken together, implies that there are other gods to be had before god, just the bible god is jealous of the other gods (after all, how could a real god be actually jealous of a make-believe god>)

For starters, Satan isn't a god. The Bible has a lot of meaning below the surface. Even since the KJV of the Bible, the English language, the use of words, etc, has changed. I'm not arguing the Bible is right or wrong, etc, but I will address the points you've made. Your spirituality is your own road.

1. No other Gods = Not worshiping any but the Father. Don't worship the moon, the sun, the gods of farming, love, gods from Pagan societies.

2. No images = Don't pray, bow down to, or worship idols/images, because they are not divine. Catholics do this all the time, btw.

3. Jealousy of God = The fact God gets jealous of His creation worshiping and devoted their love, mind and resources to falsity doesn't mean there are other gods. Simply, as I just touched on, God created us and wants our faith, love, endurance, time, etc. If we give what God seeks from us to something else, then that's a slap in God's face. That's why He's "jealous."

Make sense? Those are the meanings.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Yeah, I know the real meanings, I'm just manipulating them to fit my cult. geez.