who are you loyal to?

[raiden654]

who are you loyal to?your contry,yourself,your beleifs or your government

politics are fickle they change with the times so long as you are loyal to your contry you need nothing to beleive in other than that you will be cared for so long as you are a lapdog.

the world has darkened and the basic human rights that nearly every constituion has ever wrote is being eroded, and people are being detained for unjust causes.

we live in dark times the middle class people whom accounts for the majority of the civilized world is diminishing and people are also finding it harder to obtain jobs and home.

coledge tuition is rising in the united states and the requirements for education are lowering everday.soon you will need nothing to enter colledge other than a pencil and 20,000 for tuition.

american prep schools for dropouts are being made to let them into the military. soldiers are forced to live in poor living environments and are killing themselves alot more frequently. almost all the american soldiers hate the war and the environment.

britan is becoming orwells 1984.it is the one of the most taxed contrys in the world facing just as bad houseing and middle class issues as americans.

the average person in britan is videoed 300 times a day and when asked why they say its protect their liberties.

soon things will get chaotic.nationalism will be the driving force behind politics.fake terrorism attacks will be executed so that war can be strarted and the goals of evil elites will be coming closer to acomplishment.

then people will turn their guns on their own contrymen.who of you can say that one day you will not be pointing your guns at fellow citizens,your neighbors, your family.

as crazy as it sounds this is all posible. and i do not know the goals beind the evil elites deeds. but they are not good ones. why would people want to stip their contry men of their basic god given rights other than obtaining power is beond me.

people of earth rich, poor, or middle class. dont give them an inch when they have taken all your rights.
because when that is all be have it is one thing they cant take from us.

that inch.is your mind.they cannot control everything you do you can make decisions.to help to heal to kill and destroy. that inch is one thing every human being has that nobody can take.

[raiden654]

this is from the prison planet forum just so you know
this is the internet, agree with me mock me you have the right to freedom of speech

[ZionBlack]

raiden, i am loyal to my country. i dont always agree with them, frankly i hardly agree with them on anything. but we definitly dont live in hard times the fact that your even starting this thread on your COMPUTER, means you have an excellent qaulity of life compared to some people and countries. the fact that you have 20 grand to go to college means your doing better than most. compared to the people of lower class india, uganda darfur, etc.... things are great. and all the thanks goes to who, the government so for that im loyal to them.

[crazy white guy]

I'd say my country. In the past little while I've decided that its more important to make my country a safe and sane place than to push any agenda someone else has.

[.VX]

Don't forget the propagandistic statism being forced onto anyone who attends a government institutuion.

[odin_dax]

I'll make it short. I disagree with a lot of what you say, but those words you quote, are they yours? I mean, you may agree with them, or want to, Raiden, but why? I don't mind what your opinions are, but they must have reasoning behind them. So?

[raiden654]

what i'm hoping is that i'm just a crazy conspiracy nut and alot of these weird things i read up are fake or have little truth in them. these words are mine aside from the inch thing i said.that was from v for vendetta my favorite comic and movie.yes it was a comic.honestly i dont know what to beleive in or who to beleive in these days thats why i ask who people are loyal to. theres alot wrong with my personal life and i think the government is trying to kill many inocent people. i hope i'm just paranoid so i am going to sit back and wait til my speculations become true or become false.

[Nocturnal]

Everyone sitting back and waiting to see is exactly why some of what you wrote in your orignal post is true. If we don't let them take our liberty, we will not lose it. Apathy is our greatest down fall.

One of my favorite movies is Boondock Saints. "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. "

I am loyal to myself and a few people close to me. If I'm in a situation where I can help someone who needs it, I will. But I'm not in a position where I can go out being a super hero every day.

[Darkhunter]

I am loyal to myself and a few people which is slowly dropping from 10 it was at the beginning of this year to 4 people now due to lies.

I am just waiting in the US for them to take my guns. I have a gun that has been passed down for 3 generation and I now own it along with a revolver, and 2 shotguns. They try and take them and I'll fight to death for my guns and my freedoms which will slowly erode after my guns are gone. Just waiting for us to have to house soldiers again.

The US has basically taken a big shit on the good old constitution. Britain is bad at the moment and soon the US will adopt that camera system more then we have it at now as a new revision to the Patriot act.

I am an American and in my lifetime I know that Americans will take up our arms if they are being taken from us.... and they will try to take them. Those of you who aren't Americans watch as the second civil war comes about......

And yes Iknow I sound mad but fuck it its how I believe.

[odin_dax]

I am loyal to myself and a few people which is slowly dropping from 10 it was at the beginning of this year to 4 people now due to lies.

I am just waiting in the US for them to take my guns. I have a gun that has been passed down for 3 generation and I now own it along with a revolver, and 2 shotguns. They try and take them and I'll fight to death for my guns and my freedoms which will slowly erode after my guns are gone. Just waiting for us to have to house soldiers again.

The US has basically taken a big shit on the good old constitution. Britain is bad at the moment and soon the US will adopt that camera system more then we have it at now as a new revision to the Patriot act.

I am an American and in my lifetime I know that Americans will take up our arms if they are being taken from us.... and they will try to take them. Those of you who aren't Americans watch as the second civil war comes about......

And yes Iknow I sound mad but fuck it its how I believe.

Do you have any idea what it takes to change an Amendment? Do you honestly think on of the Bill of Rights will be nullified? No fucking chance in Hell.

I've been to London three times. I barely notice the cameras. They make no difference in my life. I like cameras on the street. It's evidence against criminals. Is it Big Brother? Not exactly. Britain is still far from 1984. There are cameras everywhere, dude.

[raiden654]

I am just waiting in the US for them to take my guns. I have a gun that has been passed down for 3 generation and I now own it along with a revolver, and 2 shotguns. They try and take them and I'll fight to death for my guns and my freedoms which will slowly erode after my guns are gone. Just waiting for us to have to house soldiers again.



i dont worry about them taking my guns.me and a freind decided what guns we wanted then we each bought the gun the other wanted. then we traded so we had the guns we wanted. we traded after we got them registered then about a month later i reported it as stolen and so did he.those guns now sit in a steel trunk on my grand pappys land. :rocketwho

[ZionBlack]

odin, the cameras are only the first step, have you noticed that security and surveillance has been gradually increasing for a while.... next step is monitors in cars to tell if you break the speed limit, if your wearing your seat belt etc.. then cameras in your house to protect against robbers, then chips in your body to help find missing persons etc until were tottally locked down. and when the government knows where everyone is and what theyre doing the constitution will become obsolete beacause no one will be able to stop the omniscient big brother.

[hamster]

make the big brother your bitch and you don't have to worry about it

[UKSWAT]

i dont worry about them taking my guns.me and a freind decided what guns we wanted then we each bought the gun the other wanted. then we traded so we had the guns we wanted. we traded after we got them registered then about a month later i reported it as stolen and so did he.those guns now sit in a steel trunk on my grand pappys land. :rocketwho

You're 13, you don't have guns.

[odin_dax]

odin, the cameras are only the first step, have you noticed that security and surveillance has been gradually increasing for a while.... next step is monitors in cars to tell if you break the speed limit, if your wearing your seat belt etc.. then cameras in your house to protect against robbers, then chips in your body to help find missing persons etc until were tottally locked down. and when the government knows where everyone is and what theyre doing the constitution will become obsolete beacause no one will be able to stop the omniscient big brother.

1. You shouldn't be breaking the speed limit anyway.

2. It's against the law in to not wear a seatbelt, and it's just stupid not to.

3. People have cameras in the home already

4. I'd want chips in my children, then removed when they're older. Otherwise, just take hair and blood.

5. The government doesn't actively know everything about everyone, and that will never happen. If you use a credit card anywhere, an ATM card, write a check, cash a check, withdraw, use a membership card from any store or gym, sign up with e-mail, fly somewhere, etc etc etc, you are in the system already. I'm doing nothing illegal, the government isn't prying into my life or telling me what not to do. You should worry more about all the marketing agencies that sell your information, all the credit reporting agencies and all HMO's. The government is the least of your privacy issues, certainly at the moment.

[Th0r]

You don't have to love your Government when you love your Country. Not really a quote I 'live by', but oh well... I thought it was certainly relevant to the Conversation.

In terms of who I am loyal too, I'm only Loyal to myself.

[ZionBlack]

odin lets say things get sooo bad that the peoples only choice is to revolt. how can that happen when they kno where your car is, whats in your house and even when a chip inside your body tells them where you are. lets say just one presidential office is corrupt . there in for life with no type of way to stop them..


thats scary

[odin_dax]

odin lets say things get sooo bad that the peoples only choice is to revolt. how can that happen when they kno where your car is, whats in your house and even when a chip inside your body tells them where you are. lets say just one presidential office is corrupt . there in for life with no type of way to stop them..


thats scary

It's time to wake up. There are governments like that now. Hell, there are regimes like that with far less technology. Things in America will never get that bad, and I can confidently say in no other Western nation. Certainly not in my lifetime. America, for example, is full of a patriots. There are patriots in office. A chance for absolute power and control doesn't exist. If you think chips tell you where you are to the government, and that the government could implement such a program on a nationwide scale, then you are truly paranoid. I remember when people got paranoid over the chips in the new passports. People actually thought the government was tracking them overseas! LOL!

I'm glad you're interested in personal liberties and freedoms. There are limits though. There are many issues to be worried about, but be realistic.

[Pimpin4Life30]

I'd say my country. In the past little while I've decided that its more important to make my country a safe and sane place than to push any agenda someone else has.

All countries are curropt and its a waste in my opinuin.be loyal to your self and only yourself.

[crazy white guy]

Pimpin4Life30, learn how to spell. And not all countries are at the level of corruption that some African and south American nations are at. In Canada its not bad. we have a few scandals every year where we learn of a MP using 300g's over the course of twenty years for his own benefit but it doesn't have a huge effect on the country. Like when Jean Cretein (former prime minister) had the sex scandal, my dad laughed and applauded him.

If you don't know who Cretein is, hes the guy that speaks with a harsh french accent, doesn't know where to put the emphasis in his speech and has his mouth too far to one side from a stroke.

[Th0r]

Minor Scandals which the Media jump on in order to sell a Newspaper doesn't mean the whole Government is corrupt. Granted whilst many things Politicians do are Unorthodox who is to say the people that Criticise them can do any better?

[ZionBlack]

To odin :
then what is the reason for all the surveilence and security. i can protect my self for most basic things

[odin_dax]

To odin :
then what is the reason for all the surveilence and security. i can protect my self for most basic things

What about the not most basic things? What about the people that can protect themselves? What about if you're mugged and stabbed in on some street in the middle of night? Security is for the people that can't be trusted. Surveillance is for the protection of the innocent. If you do nothing wrong, why worry? If the cameras are not actively watching you, why worry? That's my belief. I'm sure the government, any, would tell you the same thing.

[hatal]

First comes family
Second is business
Third is Country

[Pimpin4Life30]

Pimpin4Life30, learn how to spell. And not all countries are at the level of corruption that some African and south American nations are at. In Canada its not bad. we have a few scandals every year where we learn of a MP using 300g's over the course of twenty years for his own benefit but it doesn't have a huge effect on the country. Like when Jean Cretein (former prime minister) had the sex scandal, my dad laughed and applauded him.

If you don't know who Cretein is, hes the guy that speaks with a harsh french accent, doesn't know where to put the emphasis in his speech and has his mouth too far to one side from a stroke.

Im not talking about sex scandals.Americas the most corrupt country and everything allied with america.Sorry i forgot to spellcheck.

[ZionBlack]

~~~

[ZionBlack]

I'm sure the government, any, would tell you the same thing.

exactly why I'm arguing against that

[odin_dax]

exactly why I'm arguing against that

I fail to see how you are. Did you invalidate my points? I saw you ask questions, but I haven't seen any counterarguments.

[ZionBlack]

questions which put holes in your statements. but , the fact is. surveilence is not ok. were supposed to trust our government, and inturn, they should trust us. we dont need cameras on our streets watching our every move. we dont need chips in our passports telling the governments where we are. we dont need inescapable chips in our bodys , telling the government everything about us. the federal government should be involved as little as possible. and frankly who says things wont turn up like 1985 who says thats unrealistic. people would have thought 5 dollar gas was never going to happen 30 years ago. anything is possible.

[odin_dax]

questions which put holes in your statements. but , the fact is. surveilence is not ok. were supposed to trust our government, and inturn, they should trust us. we dont need cameras on our streets watching our every move. we dont need chips in our passports telling the governments where we are. we dont need inescapable chips in our bodys , telling the government everything about us. the federal government should be involved as little as possible. and frankly who says things wont turn up like 1985 who says thats unrealistic. people would have thought 5 dollar gas was never going to happen 30 years ago. anything is possible.

Again, I fail to see how you countered any argument. You say questions put holes in my statement, but you don't explain how. Trust, chips, surveillance, these are all issues I addressed a lot more in depth than you have, and from where I stand, you just say I'm wrong because we see differently. You say we don't need these things, but give no real reason. I give reason as to why we do. The government doesn't actively watch us. Chips in passports do not track us any more than before chips were in. Private companies watch us all the time. And one other example you failed to address is the issue of the credit agencies and marketing companies. Seriously, how ignorant can you be?

If you have some kind of formulated response, please post. Otherwise, don't bother.