aquiring potassium nitrate in my area

[Acid44]

i didnt know where to post this so i figured i'd post it here rather than risk deletion in the explosives area...

does anyone know where to get potassium nitrate in my area? (toronto ontario canada) also does anyone know the prices for the stuff on average?

[.VX]

Isn't it marketed as Salt Peter* in Canada/US?

It can be bought in a fertiliser, or as a component for Rocket Fuel from a hobby shop.

Ammonium Nitrate is the one that's a bitch to get.

*I'm aware that this isn't the correct spelling.

[Acid44]

yea it's marketed as salt peter here, i just didnt know what it was used in and i didnt want to spend hours marchin around from store to store looking for it :(

however now that i know what it is i'll hit up canadian tire sometime in the next few days :)

kudos on the fast reply:flirt:

[Th0r]

Why post it in the Questions and answers area of the S&C Section..?

The Explosives and Chem Forum is a dedicated area of discussion for Chemicals, which this thread is about. It won't be deleted unless the threads just shit or you are talking about using Explosives or Chemicals in a retarded or K3wl way.

Don't ask us to price it for you unless giving us an ammount of Potassium Nitrate.

Because of the regulations placed in Canuckistan and the United Kingdom [Along with Australia, the main Nanny States.] KNO3 is rarely if ever sold on it's own.

Also Potassium Nitrate is called Saltpetre, Saltpeter or Salt of Petra. It depends on what brands you buy.

[Acid44]

lmao@ canuckistan...

anyways... i dont really know wats wuantities its sold in so thats why i didnt give an amount

and by "not usually sold on t's own" do you mean if i got the fertilizer or whatever id have to like refine it out (by refine i mean like, shake/sift) or like... go through some crazy ass chemistry process to get it out

XxXxX

Never make a Post like this again.

Th0r.

[Th0r]

It's physically impossible to shift the KNO3 out of a NPK fertiliser. One such method however [See Bombshock.] involves NPK being diluted and frozen and KNO3 Crystals being extracted. As I said see Bombshock.

[torcher]

It's physically impossible to shift the KNO3 out of a NPK fertiliser. One such method however [See Bombshock.] involves NPK being diluted and frozen and KNO3 Crystals being extracted. As I said see Bombshock.

spammer.

anyway, ive seen potassium nitrate sold in pharmacies. it came in a plastic bottle that held around 1/2 lb

[Th0r]

Why would Pharmacists stock KNO3?

[torcher]

fuck if i know. but some do

[.VX]

WHat exactly are you planning on making? 'Smoke Bombs'? Or something worth your while?

[crazy white guy]

I was given a bottle of saltpeter along with a bunch of other chemistry related goodies by relatives a while back. It came it a OTC drug type bottle. I'm pretty sure it was from a hobby supply store.

[.VX]

Hobbyists use it to fuel rockets.

[Acid44]

Why would Pharmacists stock KNO3?

apperently it lowers sex drive or something... idk i read something like that a while ago, i dont remember exactly what it said

WHat exactly are you planning on making? 'Smoke Bombs'? Or something worth your while?

smoke bombs, someone's got some plans...

[.VX]

Everyone has to start somewhere, I suppose.

Remember that these plans could easily fall under Terrorism. Even if it's just a prank, it wouldn't be worth prison time.

[Acid44]

yeah i know, someone's willing to take that risk though... and what wouldnt fall under terrorism these days?

and this wouldnt be so much "starting" as it wold finishing, somone's got a long unsettled grudge to take care of, the smoke bombs are just for a shred of hope to not be seen, there's many other things in the works for this plan once someone gets some cash together :ahso:

[.VX]

My guess is a school shooting.

In most cases where you don't want to be seen, a balaclava will suffice. Smoke bombs are a bit impractical.

[Acid44]

lmao, no it's not a school shotting... someone has a plan for a robbery of sorts and the reason for a smoke bomb instead of just a balaclava is the shock factor that comes with it, and its for cover not so that we wont be recognised...

[RoundElephant]

apperently it lowers sex drive or something... idk i read something like that a while ago, i dont remember exactly what it said



smoke bombs, someone's got some plans...

Your right about the sex drive effects, they used to give it to prisoners to lower their libido.

[Th0r]

No more Anal for you Bubba!

[torcher]

Your right about the sex drive effects, they used to give it to prisoners to lower their libido.

and soldiers.

[hamster]

I would be more worried about getting hold of electric blasting caps a long way before worrying about such exotics as ammonium nitrate. One can have more then enough fun with gunpowder, epoxy, and good blasting caps long before ammonium nitrate. A kilo of good epoxied gunpowder will tear a car to shreds if placed in the right spot using a good blasting cap.

[death11284]

Hamster what particularly makes AN an "exotic"? Generally exotic means highly unusual or strange, AN is very very common, in comparison to any other explosives.

Oh and it's REALLY easy to get...one time use cold packs have ammoniun nitrate in one chamber and water in the other (read the label it'll say AN). This isn't really enough AN to det by itself, but mixed with AP, or used to synth something, it's definitely enough.

In my experience a blasting cap is QUITE a bit harder to get than AN or KNO3...and I DEFINITELY would not waste one detonating epoxied gunpowder...

The original purpose of it was KNO3, and I'm going to tell you an answer you might not want to hear: ebay.

You can get very cheap high grade KNO3 on ebay...personal experience usage.

[Acid44]

Oh and it's REALLY easy to get...one time use cold packs have ammoniun nitrate in one chamber and water in the other (read the label it'll say AN). This isn't really enough AN to det by itself, but mixed with AP, or used to synth something, it's definitely enough.

really? how much are those each on avg.?

[.VX]

Depends on the size of the pack, and it will list the ingredients of the pack from most prominent to least. If AP is second, then it'll be the smaller bag, etc...

[Acid44]

cool. thanks

[Th0r]

Acid44 - The thread you made is about KNO3 not AN. If you want to make an AN thread go ahead.

[gbu-36]

Isn't potassium nitrate the stuff in stump remover ? That stuff is like 4$ usd a lb at walmart
As for AN cold packs I generally see them at Dollar stores, for yes, you guessed it 1$.

In other news, if someone was planning on robbing a bank wouldn't a public forum be a bad place to talk about it ? Just wondering.

[Th0r]

I read that the KNO3 sold in Stump Remover at Wally World is no more.

[.VX]

In other news, if someone was planning on robbing a bank wouldn't a public forum be a bad place to talk about it ? Just wondering.

From what he said, I think it's more of a personal thing.

[7eleven mafia]

I read that the KNO3 sold in Stump Remover at Wally World is no more.

last time i tried to get KNO3 from stump remover it ended up being Sodium pyro-sulfafte (i think) and when i mixed it with water it gave out a poisonous gas and it has the possibility to eat away at your lungs, so its not good to fuck with stump remover unless your positive that it is KNO3

[death11284]

Mafia, if you check the bag then you're not in danger. You should have checked before you bought it instead of wasting your money.

[Vein]

some fertilizers have it fairly cheap if you're going to get 50lb +

almost all stump removers contain it for a higher price (around $5-$10 per pound)

DO NOT USE THIS KIND --- http://catalog.ehgriffith.com/images/Stump.jpg

some pharmacies sell it as Saltpeter aparently. not in my area however, and I'm guessing its more expensive.

the fertilizers and stump remover will likely be in pellets, and require chemical separation from other substances. there are processes on the internet but i dont feel like finding them for you. try g00gling it.

The best way to get it is through ebay 99.9% pure, cheapest way (considering cost and the time you'd spend separating it if you bought in pellets), and you don't have to leave your home. I got 5lbs this way for ~$20.

Oh - and I wouldn't have more than 20 lbs shipped at a time, but if you're in canada it shouldn't be as much of a problem. less regulation to my knowledge.

[7eleven mafia]

Mafia, if you check the bag then you're not in danger. You should have checked before you bought it instead of wasting your money.

ok it didnt say anywhere on the package about what was contained inside it, and i was in to much of a hurry

[hamster]

Hamster what particularly makes AN an "exotic"? Generally exotic means highly unusual or strange, AN is very very common, in comparison to any other explosives.

Oh and it's REALLY easy to get...one time use cold packs have ammoniun nitrate in one chamber and water in the other (read the label it'll say AN). This isn't really enough AN to det by itself, but mixed with AP, or used to synth something, it's definitely enough.

In my experience a blasting cap is QUITE a bit harder to get than AN or KNO3...and I DEFINITELY would not waste one detonating epoxied gunpowder...

The original purpose of it was KNO3, and I'm going to tell you an answer you might not want to hear: ebay.

You can get very cheap high grade KNO3 on ebay...personal experience usage.

show me where you buy high grade AN on ebay son, as it is a regulated product in almost all 1st world countries, only use being explosives, fertilizers since 1998 use sodium nitrate, cheaper and more stable to store.
And then you contradict yourself saying "hard to get blasting cap" and then saying "would not waste time detonating epoxied gunpowder" obviously you never had any experience with blasting caps, nor explosives from what it seems. Why the fuck did you even post?

It is known that IED with a simple blasting cap under the dash leave 2lbs of nails screws up the victims asses or anything within 20ft radius gets a permanent metal detector go off coupon

[Vein]

were talking about potassium nitrate not AN

[death11284]

show me where you buy high grade AN on ebay son, as it is a regulated product in almost all 1st world countries, only use being explosives, fertilizers since 1998 use sodium nitrate, cheaper and more stable to store.
I never said ammoniun nitrate on ebay, I said KNO3 on ebay. It's obvious you don't even know the chemical distinction of ammoniun nitrate and potassium nitrate. For future reference Potassium Nitrate is KNO3, where K is potassium and NO3 is a nitrate group. Ammoniun nitrate is NH4NO3 where the NH4 is an ammoniun group, and is named as such.

Ammoniun nitrate is 100% conc in cold packs, this I did state. Furthermore, sodium nitrate is NOT a sufficient alternative in tobacco farming, and is therefore not used. Also, what do you mean "stable to store", ammoniun nitrate is VERY difficult to detonate...or are you talking about chemical decomposition?

And then you contradict yourself saying "hard to get blasting cap" and then saying "would not waste time detonating epoxied gunpowder" obviously you never had any experience with blasting caps, nor explosives from what it seems. Why the fuck did you even post?
I never contradict myself...I don't see how stating the difficulty in getting blasting cap is a contradiction in the least bit. Commercial blasting caps are not easy to obtain in comparison to an improvised blasting cap made from say APAN or HMTD...To contradict a statement there has to be 2 conflicting views, I only state one view on blasting caps. I simply said that I would not waste a blasting cap that I spent the effort obtaining on detonating epoxied gunpowder.

Furthermore, you have no warrant as to how I have no experience with explosives. As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet that I have more experience with explosives than most of the members of this forum (no offense meant guys.)

It is known that IED with a simple blasting cap under the dash leave 2lbs of nails screws up the victims asses or anything within 20ft radius gets a permanent metal detector go off coupon

In my opinion, epoxied gunpowder would be at the lowest end of the IED spectrum. If I was going to make an IED that was going to splash the area with nails I would plasticize Erythritol Tetranitrate or Pentaerythritol tetranitrate (I'm not using abbreviations because I assume you won't understand them.) Once plasticized, if I was using ETN I would add aluminum powder so as to take advantage of the highly positive oxygen balance, thus providing a more complete utilization of all elements.
Very small nails (under an inch) would be mixed into the plasticized mixture. This would be detonated with the commercial cap (or preferably one of my homemade APAN caps) and would cover a LOT more than 20 ft. depending on the quantity. This would spray shrapnel pieces of the nails (as deadly as the nails themselves) all over. Because it's in pieces it would cover more are on the intended target, thus providing more damage.

Furthermore you don't provide any quantity or type of IED with which to use in this little experiment.

I am NOT attacking you, I'm merely responding to you. You attack me with unwarranted claims, you have absolutely NO evidence, whereas everything I have said has fact behind it. Quite frankly I have done absolutely nothing to be jumped upon like that, but obviously I'm rather adept at defending myself against such an attack.

If you don't know what an unwarranted claim is please be so kind as to read a guide on argumentation.

Also, for the record, if I was going to attempt something like that I would use a gaseous poison such as KCN...

[Vein]

I have an Ebook on homemade blasting caps. you can get it from warweed dot com if warweed gets his sight back up (police shut him down somehow), or i can upload it somewhere. Do we have an ebook download/upload section on rorta?

[hamster]

Hamster what particularly makes AN an "exotic"? Generally exotic means highly unusual or strange, AN is very very common, in comparison to any other explosives.


lol wut?

simple, don't fucking say "I wont list them because you wont understand them", because you are an idiot and making yourself look more dumb, coming up with bullshit explosive mixtures made of unattainable materials in the western world. This is not 1970s, you won't find the precursors or bases for those materials without serious distillation and other methods. "lower end"? are you mentally ill? have you seen what formed gunpowder charges with blasting caps can do? Stick to your anarchist cookbook and wikipedia kid
blasting caps should be your main priority, complete substance detonation at one point in time will generate a lot more force then exotic substances you have to fuck with to get working

[death11284]

I didn't say I won't list them because you won't understand them, I merely said I wouldn't abbreviate them.

I have no clue what you are talking about mentioning unobtainable materials.

Erythritol Tetranitrate, discussed above is nitrated erythritol. It is either erythritol and nitric acid, or sulfuric and a nitrate salt plus erythritol. The nitrate salt and sulfuric form sufficiently concentrated nitric acid. Lab equipment isn't too big of a need, I did it in an everclear bottle once (set it in a salt-ice bath in my sink).
So the materials are:

Erythritol
Sulfuric Acid (like 45% or higher IIRC)
A nitrate salt (I use AN usually, because I don't need too much ETN)


Erythtritol can be bought from a large amount of health stores as 100% pure. It's really cheap, it's an artificial sweetener like equal.
http://www.erythritol.net/?gclid=CJrB8fKChZYCFRdinAodNgoDEQ
I can attest to the purity of the erythritol bought on that site.

The sulfuric acid for the erythritol tetranitrate can be distilled from battery acid or bought in high concentrations online, which is what I did. I am not providing my source.

I have the sulfuric acid right here:
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sulfuricip4.jpg

Now, the nitrate salt:
As stated earlier ammoniun nitrate is found in cold packs...just use this.

Congratulations, you have the materials to create an explosive with a VoD of up to 8100m/s...

This substance has an extremely high oxygen balance, so I would suggest taking advantage of it with aluminum powder.

If you consider that requiring complicated distillation, etc, then you are one of the laziest people I've ever encountered. Even synthesizing some more powerful explosives is easy, you can view my post on C4...

While it's true that many precursors cannot be found due to regulations, the precursors to synthesize THOSE precursors can still be found. Also many precursors are things like hydrochloric acid (for making acetone peroxide) which is used in stone cleaning for polls under the name "muriatic acid" it is 10.5M if I remember correctly...the strongest chemically possible liquid HCl is 12M.

If you want some help with some *real* explosives talk to me
but here is a short list of what to look into:

HMTD (hexamethylene triperoxide diamine)
AP (Acetone Peroxide)
ETN (erythritol tetranitrate)
ANFO (ammoniun nitrate + a fuel oil)
PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate, I wouldn't suggest this, it's hard to get the pentaerythritol)

Ok, I want to clarify something, just because something does alot of damage does not mean it's not the lower end. For example, on the lower end of the military spectrum is where I would place RPGs though they are obviously quite effective. This is because the things on the far end of that spectrum are nuclear weapons.

I have seen what those gun powder charges can do, in my adolescent years. However, I have also seen what the other charges listed above can do, and I assure you it makes epoxied gunpowder look friendly. Gunpowder won't ionize your flesh in a fraction of a second, some of these used properly CAN.

My advice on a homemade cap would be 2g HMTD pressed into a straw lightly, stuck into the middle of the charge. Either that or AP mixed with AN 60/40 AP/AN by weight. I can assure you this is sufficient to detonate most boosters.

I'm not saying epoxied gunpowder isn't effective, I'm saying it's not as effective as others.

I couldn't find any videos of epoxied gunpowder but here is one kg of "gunpowder"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTrgf4yW7RE
By gunpowder I assume you mean double/triple base smokeless and not black powder? Because black powder is laughable.
Here is 1lb of something a bit more...powerful :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Lf3l1VWMo

By the way why did you quote that post? I'm aware I was kind of being a dick there, my bad, but what relation does it have to the topic at hand?

Sorry I didn't see your edit, my bad. most exotics are pretty easy to detonate really. At least the ones I've listed. True, a blasting cap is definitely a priority, but an HMTD or APAN cap is sufficient for ETN, especially if it's sensitized with Al powder. If your detonating ANFO or something similar one of those caps with a 20-30g APAN booster or HMTDAN booster will DEFINITELY set it off.
These will perform as well as commercial caps, are much cheaper, and are much more fun to make imo : )

I'll tell you, most of the subjects here I wouldn't question anything you said hamster, but there are 2 subjects I've got just about everyone here on. Most things involving computer, and explosives/chemistry.

[death11284]

Also so there is no mistaking that it is in fact my sulfuric acid, and I managed to obtain it:
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=minexb1.jpg
Notice my name written on the paper.

[hamster]

draw me up a schematic of your distillation process I would like to see it very much, you seem to know what you are doing, what sort of glassware do you use etc, a notebook paper scanned or paint is fine
thanks in advance

[death11284]

Uh there isn't a distillation process in this reaction : ). If you mean the sulfuric acid, I bought it 98% concentrated for a decent price (950mL to avoid hazmat fees). However, you can get it to sufficient concentration through just boiling it. I wouldn't advise buying a liter or more, because the hazmats raise red flags on you.

The only thing I've ever needed a distillation setup for was nitric acid. I only made it once, to make a small sample of RDX, I used 3 beer bottles and piping from the chem lab at my local community college. I used silicon for the seals, and they held for most of the distillation, when they dissolved most of the gaseous nitric was distilled fully. If you want information on distillation go to roguesci.org and check their nitric acid special project.

All in all distilling things really sucks and I avoid it. Usually sulfuric acid and a nitrate is a substitute for nitric acid.

My general labware is simply a painters mask, a pyrex beaker and a pyrex e-flask, along with safety glasses I usually use for welding. None of this is really necessary for ETN, the 1st time I made it was in an everclear bottle, I kept it cool by filling my sink with rock salt, ice and a bit of water.

Here is a detailed synthesis of the ETN:


60g Potassium nitrate is added to 100ml 95% Sulfuric Acid and cooled to 10?C. 15g Erythritol is added little by little , letting temperature jump between 10-20?C with each addition. Mix is left for 15min after last addition.

The mix, is poured into 2 litres water, a very fine crystalline powder will form and float to the bottom. The solution is filtered and added to a further 2 litres of bicarbonate (baking soda) / water solution, filtered again. This is repeated again with water and filtered. repeat as needed until it's neutral, and you're done.

[hamster]

now this is a good thread:
has a good argument
instructions
solution

all the bitching I see around here about good threads and derailment, and this man is one who makes a good thread. Please continue on sharing your knowledge here, and one day S&C will meet with Explosives for a project

[gbu-36]

Wally world still carries KNO3 as of last week as Spectracide Stump Remover in my area (Wyoming). Then there is allways the classified ad's at passfire (Though most of those vendors will not ship internationally) *shrug*

[Osi]

I have now word to say that thanks for good information keep it up!!!!!!!

[_KAMIKAZE_]

Make it like the rest of us do.

I probably should have said this before I edited my post and added this, but you can make it with straight Ammonium Nitrate and Salt Free Salt... Sodium free, whatever it's called...
You need 2 mason jars, water, sodium free salt, and some cold packs... Read the ingredients on these, they've gotta be the ones with only water and AN in them...
Mix your AN with the water in one jar until it's almost to the point of over-saturation.
Do the same in your other jar with the Salt free Salt.
Now go outside, and slowly mix the AN water with your Salt Free Salt Water... It'll start fuming and bubbling pretty quickly from what I remember...
Set your jar down in the shade away from pets and people, and wait.
DO NOT INHALE THE FUMES. That's ammonia gas ((I think)) and it's not exactly good for you...
It'll bubble and fume down to your crystals, and there you go.
Depending on the amount you made, it can and will take a bit of time.

[von Killhoven]

How critical are the exact amounts of AN/KCl? I sort of remember this being discussed on RS once and it was problematic somehow. Then again, might've just as well been the (similar) AN > Urea nitrate process.

[_JT_]

Why would Pharmacists stock KNO3?

As far as I know, it has no pharmaceutical use, but you can use it for curing meat... so some really old-time places might still sell it for this purpose. When I worked in one such place, I had a few old gents come in asking for the stuff, but unfortunately we didn't sell it. Which is just as well as the temptation to fiddle stock-takes would have been far too great.

I have found a site selling large quantities based in the UK if any brit members are interested. I've not ordered from them yet but next payday I might treat myself to some supplies. According to the Law I've attempted to research, I can make 100g of BP with absolutely no legal repercussions for "experimentation purposes"... as long as I don't somehow get noticed loading it into containers and causing explosions, there doesn't seem to be much of a problem with it.

[Anders Hoveland]

KNO3 can actually be made. In old times, on the Continent, they would make a compost pile and frequently urinate on it. Then the dirt would be mixed with some hot water and the resulting muddy water filtered through a cloth. Potash (potassium salt) would be added and the mixture boiled down to a smaller volume. Making the resulting mix cold would cause saltpetre (KNO3) to crystallize out.
Potash is basically just regular wood ash, but it is sometimes boiled with CaCl2 to precipitate out all the oxalic acid in the ash, since CaC2O4 is not soluble. An idea, if someone is desperate, is to bubble car exhaust into a solution of baking soda and salt substitute, then boil out most of the water, then cool to 10 degrees C and collect KNO3 crystals. For best yields, the fuel injector should be modified so that there is a minimum ammount of fuel injected into the pistons, but a maximum ammount of air. The catalystic converter on the car, while it is reducing pollution by turning the SO2 into H2SO4, is also making more pollution by turning N2 and O2 into NO2.

[madscientist]

What the hell are you talking about? The primary function of catalytic converters is to destroy nitrogen dioxide - not produce it.

One of the worst aspects of sulfur dioxide pollution is the very fact it can become sulfuric acid. This is not what I would consider "reduction of pollution."

Even if catalytic converters produced nitrogen oxides, I can't imagine a more wasteful and expensive way of producing a couple milligrams of nitrate. It's available in cold packs and fertilizers, and no matter how impure, it could not possibly be more difficult and expensive to extract than producing it by burning fuel.

This is partly why I keep bugging you for references on everything... too unreliable.

[_JT_]

Yeah Anders, I think you misunderstand how cats are supposed to work... either that or you've been reading the wrong wiki articles on this stuff.

[Anders Hoveland]

I was refering to a "2-way" converter (on older models) that actually could increase the ammount of nitric oxides formed, under certain conditions. That catalylizing of nitric oxide into O2 and N2 goes both ways.

"Some catalytic converters also contain the metal rhodium. These catalysts are referred to as "three-way catalysts." The rhodium's purpose is to reduce amounts of nitric oxide."

"If sulfur passes over a catalyst, it may be further oxidized in the catalyst, i.e. (SO2 may be further oxidized to
SO3). While it is possible to add substances like vanadium to the catalyst wash coat to combat sulfur oxide formation, such addition will reduce the effectiveness of the catalyst."

Thus, converters oxidize SO2 into SO3. This is not necessarily a big disadvantage. The sulfuric acid mostly goes into the ground and neutralizes with the minerals in the soil. Otherwise, the SO2 would be photochemically oxidized in the sky to SO3 and then cause acid rain.

Note that I wrote: "an idea if someone is desperate" about the idea for nitrates from car exhaust. Obviously it would take a lot of exhaust to get much nitrate. That brown gas coming out of diesel engines is NO2. the exhaust is more reddish-brown than it is dark (soot).

Bubbling exhaust into a bicarbonate solution would be an easy way to extract out the
nitrates. The carbon dioxide is not going to be absorbed. The soot is mostly going to be insoluble. The only other things that are going to get absorbed is SO2 and possibly a little oxalate.

[madscientist]

lmfao

[Jinx]

Come on Anders, references or GTFO.

Unless proven by someone other than you, it'll be considered bullshit.

[axorz]

ive herd you can buy it from a plant shop, as "Plant Food" im not sure though because im not going to locate a plant shop just to find out if this "Plant Food" is potassium nitrate or some plant food crap that i don't need. just buy it off ebay its so much easier and affordable. they sell it by the pound i think. i have not bought any in a long time because i buy in bulk. if you cant buy stuff on the internet, ask someone to take your money to a bank and put it on a card. then you dont have to pay big fees for using the credit card. or you could go to walmart and put your money on a pre-paid visa card. some online shops give you an option to pay the person that comes to your door in cash instead of paying online. i dont know if this applys with shops that sell potassium nitrate though.

[Leshrac]

PANreac resellers.
Chemical supply houses.
Gardening stores.
Aqua stores (they use it in fish tanks in absurdly high quantities).

[Leshrac]

If you want some help with some *real* explosives talk to me
but here is a short list of what to look into:
.

No. Someone barely able/not able to even acquire KNO3 shouldn't fuck with this stuff and you know it.

I started with peroxides and I'm damn lucky they didn't go off in my face considering the outrageous amounts.

Either way, I won't EVER recommend someone BEGINS with them and you should too if you're not a whackjob trying to get people killed.

[_JT_]

Aqua stores (they use it in fish tanks in absurdly high quantities).

For a long time my preferred source of potassium chlorate was fish stores :-D Not even so much as an age restriction on the product. Fucking win. Those tabs seem pretty hard to get hold of now, very few places around here still carry them.

[Leshrac]

For a long time my preferred source of potassium chlorate was fish stores :-D Not even so much as an age restriction on the product. Fucking win. Those tabs seem pretty hard to get hold of now, very few places around here still carry them.

Try panreac. They have resellers around the whole damn world and are very... "forgiving" about... "documentation".

Ex (where my stuff comes from:)

http://www.fiers.be/fr/218215
http://www.fiers.be/fr/215887
http://www.fiers.be/fr/216105
http://www.fiers.be/fr/212864


Another "field", I agree, but still !

[_JT_]

Ahh I actually don't mind the paper trail as I'm not up to "no good". UK law is not (yet) after the pyrotechnics hobbyist, as long as we play nice and don't blatantly blow shit up in public. I'd be happy buying from whoever will ship to me, and not scam me for all I'm worth! Thanks for the links though, my French isn't what it used to be but I can muddle through.

[iceniner]

Beating a dead horse here, but what's worth more, the pyrotechnics hobby or fingers?

Potassium nitrate is one thing (and is probably bad enough) but when you start messing around with AP you're really asking for trouble.

"A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again"

[_JT_]

As a musician and electrician I'd definitely have to say "fingers". But I don't mess with the k3wl stuff. Come to think of it, I haven't mixed ANYTHING for years now. I suppose lately I've just felt the urge to mix up some relatively tame compositions and do a spot of experimenting... I almost exclusively use electronic ignition anyway, while it doesn't eliminate risk, it does mean no open flames and the option of being far, far away. :-D

Never played with AP, never will. Causing destruction doesn't interest me. Smoke, flashes, bangs and pretty colours, that's more my scene.

[Anders Hoveland]

Over a plastic sheet is placed a mixture of dirt, ashes from fire, and dead plant material. Small twig branches, straw and leaves are added, to make the heap porous. A light covering is placed over it. The heap is frequently periodically watered with urine or animal excrement, and turned over every week. After about eight months, salt petre (KNO3) will have formed in sufficient quantities.

LEACHING.
When the process of nitrification is complete, the earth of the heaps must be leached. In the process of leaching, in order to save fuel, we must strive to get as strong a solution as possible, and at the same time to extract all or nearly all the nitre. These two objects can only be attained by repeated leachings of the same earth, the ley thus obtained being used on fresh earth until the strength of the ley is sufficient. A quantity of nitrified earth is thrown into a vat, or ash-tub, or barrel, or hogshead with an aperture below, closely stopped and covered lightly with straw. Water is added, about half as much in volume as the earth. After stirring, this is allowed to remain twelve hours. After opening, about half the water runs through containing one-half the nitre. Pure water, in quantity half as much as first used, is again poured on, and after a few moments run through. This will contain one half the remaining nitre, and therefore one fourth of the original quantity. The successive leachings become progessively less yielding, until, after the sixth leaching, the earth is considered as sufficiently exhausted. The exhausted earth is thrown back on the nitre-beds, or else mixed with black earth to form new beds. The leys thus obtained are used upon fresh earth until the solution is of sufficient density to bear an egg. It then contains about a pound of salt to a gallon of liquid.

CONVERSION.
The ley thus obtained contains, besides nitrate of potash (nitre), also nitrate of lime and magnesia, and chlorides of sodium and potassium. The object of the next process is to convert all other nitrates into nitrate of potash. This is done by adding wood ashes. The potash of the ashes takes all the nitric acid of the other nitrates forming the nitrate of potash (nitre), and the lime and magnesia are precipitated as an insoluble sediment. Sometimes the ashes is mixed with the nitrified earth and leached together, sometimes the saltpetre ley is filtered through wood ashes, sometimes the ley of ashes is added to the saltpetre ley. In either case the result is the same.


CRYSTALLIZATION.
The crude product thus obtained is then poured off from the precipitate, into a metal boiler. It still contains common salt (chloride of sodium) in considerable ammounts, and some other impurities in smaller quantities. It is a peculiarity of nitre, that it is much more soluble than common salt in boiling water, but much less soluble in cold water. As the boiling proceeds, therefore, and the solution becomes more concentrated, the common salt is, most of it, precipitated in small crystals, as a sandy sediment, and may be raked out. Much organic matter rises as scum, and must also be removed. When the concentration has reached almost the point of saturation, the boiler must be allowed to cool. This is known by letting fall a drop of the boiling liquid upon a cold metallic surface; if it quickly crystallizes, it is time to stop the boiling. It is now poured into large receivers and left to cool. As the ley cools, nearly the whole of the nitre separates in the form of crystals, which sink to the bottom. These are then removed, drained by throwing them in baskets, and dried by gentle beat. The mother-liquor is either thrown back into the boilers, or else used in watering the heaps. The product thus obtained is the crude saltpetre of commerce. It still contains fifteen to twenty-five per cent. of impurities, principally common salt (chloride of sodium), chloride of potassium and organic matter. In this impure form it is usually brought to market.

There is another process, refining, by which the whole of the impurities is removed.

REFINING.
One hundred gallons of water is poured into a boiler, and crude saltpetre added from time to time, while the liquid is heating, until four thousand pounds are introduced. This will make a saturated solution of nitre. The scum must be removed, and the undissolved common salt scraped out. About sixty gallons cold water is now added gradually, so as not to cool the liquid too suddenly. From one to one and a-half pounds of glue, dissolved in hot water, is added, with stirring. Blood is sometimes used instead of glue. The glue seizes upon the organic matter, and they rise together as scum, which is removed. Continue the boiling until the liquid is clear. The liquid is then suffered to cool to one hundred and ninety-four degrees, and then carefully ladled out into the crystallizers. These are large shallow vats, with the bottom sloping gently to the middle. In these the cooling is completed, with constant stirring. In the process of cooling nearly the whole of the nitre is deposited in very fine, needle-like crystals, which, as they deposit, are removed and drained. In this condition it is called saltpetre flour. The object of the constant stirring is to prevent the aggregation of the crystals into masses, from which it is difficult to remove the adhering mother-liquor. The saltpetre flour is then washed of all adhering mother-liquor. A saturated solution of pure nitre is added, in quantity sufficient to moisten thoroughly the whole mass. After remaining two or three hours to drain, the solution is removed. The saturated solution of nitre cannot, of course, dissolve any more nitre, but dissolves freely the impurities present in the adhering mother-liquor. Last of all, a small quantity of pure water, only about one pound to fifty-three pounds of the nitre to be washed, is added in the same manner, and removed at the end of two hours. The nitre is now dried by gentle heat and constant stirring, and may be considered quite pure, and fit for the manufacture of gunpowder.

or see http://fryingcolors.com/saltpeter.html

[_JT_]

Yeah... nice info and all, but extremely time consuming and effort intensive. Nobody who posts here is EVER going to do this.

[Anders Hoveland]

All chemicals are essentially made by heating some combination of rocks, dead plant matter, water, and air. It is only a matter of long procedures, separations, and distillations.

If one is willing to have the effort, and has the necessary knowledge, any chemical can be made using only things one can gather in nature. Of course, having glassware and having access to certain common household products would make this easier.

[iceniner]

Nobody who posts here is EVER going to do this.
Nobody?

Personally I find this stuff fascinating.

[_JT_]

Ok, so "nobody" was a bit of an exaggeration ;-) I just don't forsee too many members spending 8 months tending to a heap of manure, piss and ash and processing the results. If you've got a few people working on the heaps and a load of spare time and outdoor space, maybe... I had thought of doing it myself years ago but then I hit an age where I could just buy the stuff and it became way too much effort.

Although if I do have to eat my words on this one, I wouldn't mind seeing some pics of said member's process and the end product being used! I do find the old-school production methods very interesting. Making decent black powder, in my humble opinion, is a pretty useful ability to have on one's skill-set.

[iceniner]

I just don't forsee too many members spending 8 months tending to a heap of manure

Thor has spent what, five years?

[Leshrac]

Nobody who posts here is EVER going to do this.

I did... long ago... lolz.

For the example.... First extraction of KNO3 before figuring out where the fuck to buy it was from a stack of leaves in the woods... And it worked !

[iceniner]

Really? Sufficient nitrates from leaves?

I was unaware...

[Leshrac]

Really? Sufficient nitrates from leaves?

I was unaware...

I simply tried the method explained in TM31-210. Work was pretty half-assed since I was around 12-13 and mainly working with what I could salvage in my mom's kitchen but in the end a garbage bag full of rotting leaves/soil (humus) succeeded in making me around 120-150g of KNO3.

Tedious and not nearly as rewarding as you'd expect but it definitely works.

[Anders Hoveland]

Bacteria in decaying compost break down nitrogen-containing organic compounds and oxidize them with air to form nitrates. Adding ammonium sulfate fertilizer or urine (which contains urea) adds more usable nitrogen, which leads to formation of more nitrates. Some bacteria can even turn nitrogen gas from the air into ammonia or nitrates. Scientists have long sought a process which can replicate what these bacteria are capable of doing, without requiring extreme heat in a pressurized container. Recently such a process was found, but it is very impractical.