We all saw this coming.

[.VX]

Ghosts aren't real.

Aliens, if real, don't visit Earth.

Shadow People aren't real.

Lizard People aren't real.


Furthermore,

Freemasons, Skull & Bones, Illuminati, etc., etc. and etc. don't run the planet.

JFK wasn't shot because he wanted to buy back the FED loans.

The Holy Grail isn't buried at Oak Island.

Sylvia Brown is a fraud.

Roswell wasn't an alien spacecraft.

The Iraq war wasn't about oil.

9/11 wasn't a US-government conspiracy.


Anything else? Oh, let's stay on topic! (If you want to respond, please start a new thread.)

Further messages not containing photos will result in a temporary lock of the thread and deletion of posts.

Odin, don't you believe in God?

Think about it; a book in which the main character is found after three men follow a light in the sky which leads to a child with lots of strange powers who's "mother" doesn't recall ever having sex? Then after he recovers from his failed murder attempt, he ascends back to his land in the sky on a "cloud".

But 'conventional' Aliens? Those things that have a lot of evidence to suggest their existance? All that bullshit is just just propagated by commies, nazis, fags and Canadians.

On a serious note, Odin, how the hell would you know about any of that stuff? And Roswell is a place, nobody's saying otherwise.

(Tell me if that made no sense whatsoever.)

[RoundElephant]

So the Holy ghost isn't real?

[Th0r]

Ghosts - Well I've spoken to people who claim to have had experiences involving ghosts and I do believe in Ghosts. Not to mention there is a lot of evidence in the form of accounts and scientific evidence to backup the existence of ghosts.

Aliens - I believe there are Aliens out there somewhere. In the Billions of planets and stars out there, there has to be other forms of life.

I know nothing about Shadow or Lizard people, so I won't comment on them.

JFK wasn't shot because of Federal loans, but I can think of dozens more reasons for why he was shot, although I believe LHO did pull the trigger.

Sylvia Browne is a mentalist, thus a fake.

[odin_dax]

Rather vague title, VX.

Round, the Holy Spirit isn't a spook, and I think the Bible does quite well in differentiating between a spirit and a ghost. Also, the existence of the Holy Spirit is quite clear, as is His/Its purpose. The need for souls to come out of rest to commune with the living is also explained.

VX, my best response to you is that my belief or lack of belief in any deity doesn't prove or disprove any independent statements. I'm tired of having the religious debate, since I've been through it multiple times on this board. There is absolutely no reason to go over it again. If you want to read up on what I wrote, I recommend doing a search.

Roswell is a place, you're right. Sorry for using imprecise words. I was referring to the idea that an alien spacecraft crashed there.

Also, what evidence is there to suggest aliens exist? Your statement certainly infers that position.
I'm not saying aliens don't exist, never did.

So how do I know about any of this stuff? Well, as a member of the New World Order, I looked at the secret documents buried under Vatican City.... Come on.

[.VX]

Ghosts - Well I've spoken to people who claim to have had experiences involving ghosts and I do believe in Ghosts. Not to mention there is a lot of evidence in the form of accounts and scientific evidence to backup the existence of ghosts.

Aliens - I believe there are Aliens out there somewhere. In the Billions of planets and stars out there, there has to be other forms of life.


I believe in Ghosts. Although I'm not really scared of them.

I once read that there is an estimated 10,000 planets containing intelligent life forms in the the milky way. When I'm back in Aus I'll post the entire article if anyone's interested.

[odin_dax]

Ghosts - Well I've spoken to people who claim to have had experiences involving ghosts and I do believe in Ghosts. Not to mention there is a lot of evidence in the form of accounts and scientific evidence to backup the existence of ghosts.

I'll have to say no, because as a man of Christianity, I'm taught that this isn't possible. Furthermore, I'm open to the idea that there are, but I certainly haven't seen any evidence that isn't circumstantial.
I do claim that I once heard moaning in a flat field with nobody around coming from a pipe that no human could fit in and the other end was sealed. I was certainly spooked, but I can't rule out any plausible possibility either.

Aliens - I believe there are Aliens out there somewhere. In the Billions of planets and stars out there, there has to be other forms of life.

Well, I'd agree, but to say that they exist and have more advanced technology and come to earth is a far stretch at best.

JFK wasn't shot because of Federal loans, but I can think of dozens more reasons for why he was shot, although I believe LHO did pull the trigger.

He was shot for a reason, that's for sure.

[.VX]

Rather vague title, VX.


VX, my best response to you is that my belief or lack of belief in any deity doesn't prove or disprove any independent statements.

Also, what evidence is there to suggest aliens exist? Your statement certainly infers that position.
I'm not saying aliens don't exist, never did.


You can change the thread name if you want. It didn't really occur to me until afterwards.

I wasn't trying to say that your beliefs regarding God prove or disprove anything, I was trying to bring to light the hypocrisy of believing in God, who has no evidence to believe in apart from the word of a book which is infamous for it's many contradictions, and to not even acknowledge the possibility of something that has at least some (I'll admit that there is not much evidence regarding Lizard people, the NWO, or many other things that are mentioned in this thread) evidence to suggest it's existance. (I need to break up my sentences a bit more)

Evidence to suggest Aliens' existance? Well ... there's the tens of thousands of reported Alien sightings/abductions, hundreds of thousands more distinctly non-human UFO sightings, the ancient paintings and stories of people from the sky with amazing technologies, the ancient structures found all over the world that can only be made sense of from the air, the symbolic basis of many religions (including the Holy Bible) and the existance of life on Earth. We are proof that life can be created under the right conditions, and there are many other planets that could support humans.



I'll have to say no, because as a man of Christianity, I'm taught that this isn't possible. Furthermore, I'm open to the idea that there are, but I certainly haven't seen any evidence that isn't circumstantial.


That's fucking retarded, Christianity's claim that Alien life is impossible makes no sense at all. The possibility of their existance isn't even a debate of how much evidence there is, it's just not debatable. If you can claim to believe that, then I can claim to believe that God is impossible. See the comeplete lack of logic?

Odin, instead of denying logic because of your religion, why don't you try thinking for yourself?

[odin_dax]

Evidence to suggest Aliens' existance? Well ... there's the tens of thousands of reported Alien sightings/abductions, hundreds of thousands more distinctly non-human UFO sightings, the ancient paintings and stories of people from the sky with amazing technologies, the ancient structures found all over the world that can only be made sense of from the air, the symbolic basis of many religions (including the Holy Bible) and the existance of life on Earth. We are proof that life can be created under the right conditions, and there are many other planets that could support humans.

Please, you believe that load of crap? I thought you were supposed to be "intelligent" and a "free-thinker" but you believe the shit trailer trash with no money say?
Of all the eye witness accounts, not a single shred of proof. No videos, no pictures. Further, there is absolutely no scientific basis to suggest aliens created life, ancients had help from them or wanted to communicate with them. Makes sense from the air? Who is else would be in the air? Their gods!
There is also nothing in the Bible that says anything about aliens, or that aliens are a basis for anything (which I don't understand how you can claim)... unless you consider God an alien.
And most ancient drawings have been dismissed or rejected as support for alien visitation.

I'd rather believe in something based on faith than conjecture to be proven false after brief research. I see you're the opposite.

That's fucking retarded, Christianity's claim that Alien life is impossible makes no sense at all. The possibility of their existance isn't even a debate of how much evidence there is, it's just not debatable. If you can claim to believe that, then I can claim to believe that God is impossible. See the comeplete lack of logic?

Odin, instead of denying logic because of your religion, why don't you try thinking for yourself?

I wasn't talking about aliens there, so your apparent disregard for my beliefs isn't called for.

Also, I'm sure you're quite aware, I do think for myself.

[.VX]

Please, you believe that load of crap? I thought you were supposed to be "intelligent" and a "free-thinker" but you believe the shit trailer trash with no money say?
Of all the eye witness accounts, not a single shred of proof. No videos, no pictures. Further, there is absolutely no scientific basis to suggest aliens created life, ancients had help from them or wanted to communicate with them. Makes sense from the air? Who is else would be in the air? Their gods!
There is also nothing in the Bible that says anything about aliens, or that aliens are a basis for anything (which I don't understand how you can claim)... unless you consider God an alien.
And most ancient drawings have been dismissed or rejected as support for alien visitation.

I'd rather believe in something based on faith than conjecture to be proven false after brief research. I see you're the opposite.



I wasn't talking about aliens there, so your apparent disregard for my beliefs isn't called for.

Also, I'm sure you're quite aware, I do think for myself.

I don't believe any of the accounts of Alien abduction I've heard. You asked for evidence suggesting the existence of aliens, and I gave it to you. I certainly don't think that it even comes close to proving anything.

How much can 'proof' really mean to you? You believe the Holy Bible to be literal fact. Have you got any proof of that? Furthermore, do you have any evidence that even suggests that the stories of the Bible are true? No, you don't. Even though you're right in saying that believing the accounts of people being abducted by aliens to be true is illogical, there's still infinitely more reason to believe them than to believe in the Bible.

Why can't Jesus and God be Aliens? And read my first post again.
(I don't necessarily believe that God is an alien, but I think the Bible certainly makes it sound that way.)

About the cave paintings, again, I'm not saying that they are, I'm just igving evidence.

Aliens and Ghosts were proven nonexistant after brief research? Both our beliefs are conjecture. They're just theories which can't be proved. We both have faith, too, mine is just based on evidence, and my own experiences (I'm not talking about Aliens or anything here, just some other things that I believe in), whereas yours is blind.

Yeah, I got mixed up there. Just replace "Alien life" with "Ghosts", my point still stands.

You said that your religion 'teaches' you that Ghosts cannot exist. Care to explain how it did this? If not, then you've been told that, and blindly accepted it.

[odin_dax]

I don't believe any of the accounts of Alien abduction I've heard. You asked for evidence suggesting the existence of aliens, and I gave it to you. I certainly don't think that it even comes close to proving anything.

Why provide "evidence" that you yourself don't believe in? That doesn't make sense!

How much can 'proof' really mean to you? You believe the Holy Bible to be literal fact. Have you got any proof of that? Furthermore, do you have any evidence that even suggests that the stories of the Bible are true? No, you don't. Even though you're right in saying that believing the accounts of people being abducted by aliens to be true is illogical, there's still infinitely more reason to believe them than to believe in the Bible.

Again, this isn't a religious debate and I'm not engaging in it. We have plenty to discuss, so let's stick to those topics.

Why can't Jesus and God be Aliens? And read my first post again.
(I don't necessarily believe that God is an alien, but I think the Bible certainly makes it sound that way.)

Depends on your definition of "alien." I won't refute any statements there.

About the cave paintings, again, I'm not saying that they are, I'm just igving evidence.

Again, why? Evidence is proof. Evidence supports a claim. If you don't believe in that evidence, and even say that, then the point of raising it becomes meaningless.

Aliens and Ghosts were proven nonexistant after brief research? Both our beliefs are conjecture. They're just theories which can't be proved. We both have faith, too, mine is just based on evidence, and my own experiences (I'm not talking about Aliens or anything here, just some other things that I believe in), whereas yours is blind.

I don't recall saying aliens and ghosts were proven. All I said about aliens is on the matter of them coming to earth. Your "theories" are nothing more than speculation, if that. The sky paintings, do you agree or not with my statement? Is that not logical?

My faith isn't blind. There have been countless accounts of documented miracles, there were plenty of witnesses at the time of Jesus, and before! The earliest years of Christianity had followers that died for their beliefs. Since this isn't a religious debate, let the matter rest there.

Yeah, I got mixed up there. Just replace "Alien life" with "Ghosts", my point still stands.

Actually, no it doesn't.

You said that your religion 'teaches' you that Ghosts cannot exist. Care to explain how it did this? If not, then you've been told that, and blindly accepted it.

Two things.

One, you're asking me for to explain and provide reasons why [human] ghosts don't commune with humans (which is what I said). That tells me you know nothing of the subject, and that your previous statement about your point still being valid, which it's not without saying this, is baseless in any fact or logic.

Two, you frame the question as a challenge, to which that if I don't provide you with an answer, probably a subjective satisfactory answer, that I'm blindly following what I've been told. I assume that would make me an idiot then.
To follow, I know. I've done my research, been taught and followed up. I didn't and don't blindly follow anything. I have reasoning for all my beliefs, religious or not, unlike most people also in the matters of religion or not. Furthermore, if I told you what I thought, you'd be what you called me, blind. Either you'll blindly assume what I said is right, to which you're a hypocrite, OR you'd just assume anything about religion is false or lies and reject anything I said, making any statement I make further on the matter rather pointless.

In conclusion, do your own research.


Now, do you want to stop making this about me and my beliefs, or did you want to have an interesting discussion about aliens, NWO, Sylvia Brown, JFK or whatever else I might have mentioned? I assume you made this thread to have an intelligent discussion, one that facts and arguments could be used, but if you made this thread just to raise and attack my religious beliefs, then I'm severely disappointed and lost all respect for you.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Alien=Immigrant from another country.

[Th0r]

Alien=Immigrant from another country.

That's an Americanisation I believe.

[FAZEone]

Hah..

Well, VX, what about the recounts and sightings of people being miraculoulsy healed of something? Or people being touched by God's power causing them to fall in a fit of hysterics? Or maybe the few people who claim to have visited or seen Heaven or Hell?

Your point on the alien sightings and such remains null. If you believe in aliens, do you also believe in the many ancient gods? Such as the Greeks, Romans, Aztecs etc gods? What about spirits, evil and good beings? "Monsters" that you would read about in a science fiction book?

[.VX]

Why provide "evidence" that you yourself don't believe in? That doesn't make sense!
I could be wrong. Anyway, I said that I didn't believe the stories of abduction that I've heard. I'm not denying that there's a fair possibility that atleast one is true.

Depends on your definition of "alien." I won't refute any statements there.

By Alien I meant an intelligent, extraterrestrial being.


Again, why? Evidence is proof. Evidence supports a claim. If you don't believe in that evidence, and even say that, then the point of raising it becomes meaningless.

Evidence is not proof.

I don't recall saying aliens and ghosts were proven (nonexistant). All I said about aliens is on the matter of them coming to earth. Your "theories" are nothing more than speculation, if that. The sky paintings, do you agree or not with my statement? Is that not logical?

I'd rather believe in something based on faith than conjecture to be proven false after brief research. I see you're the opposite.
Sorry, I misunderstood this. Still, more than "brief research" has been conducted regarding Aliens and Ghosts, and I don't think they've been proven to not exist.

My faith isn't blind. There have been countless accounts of documented miracles, there were plenty of witnesses at the time of Jesus, and before! The earliest years of Christianity had followers that died for their beliefs. Since this isn't a religious debate, let the matter rest there.

I believe that they happened, I just don't believe that they're related to the Bible.

Actually, no it doesn't.

Why? Can you give me your reasons as to why there isn't even a possibility that Ghosts exist?

Two things.

One, you're asking me for to explain and provide reasons why [human] ghosts don't commune with humans (which is what I said). That tells me you know nothing of the subject, and that your previous statement about your point still being valid, which it's not without saying this, is baseless in any fact or logic.

Two, you frame the question as a challenge, to which that if I don't provide you with an answer, probably a subjective satisfactory answer, that I'm blindly following what I've been told. I assume that would make me an idiot then.
To follow, I know. I've done my research, been taught and followed up. I didn't and don't blindly follow anything. I have reasoning for all my beliefs, religious or not, unlike most people also in the matters of religion or not. Furthermore, if I told you what I thought, you'd be what you called me, blind. Either you'll blindly assume what I said is right, to which you're a hypocrite, OR you'd just assume anything about religion is false or lies and reject anything I said, making any statement I make further on the matter rather pointless.

You didn't really make it clear that you meant that your religion taught you that communication between Ghosts and Humans was impossible. I assumed that you were just talking about Ghosts' existance.

I wasn't saying that you were blind if you couldn't answer. I was saying that you'd be blind if you had just accepted that Ghosts contacting humans is impossible (Which I still can't see how anyone can think that), rather than coming to that conclusion by yourself. You said that you "did your research", which is fine.

I'm not going to bother commenting on the rest of what you said.

Now, do you want to stop making this about me and my beliefs, or did you want to have an interesting discussion about aliens, NWO, Sylvia Brown, JFK or whatever else I might have mentioned? I assume you made this thread to have an intelligent discussion, one that facts and arguments could be used, but if you made this thread just to raise and attack my religious beliefs, then I'm severely disappointed and lost all respect for you.

Yes, mum ...



Does anyone else think that the recent formation of the EU, and similar unions which are being planned is suspicious? If I was going to take over the world covertly, then that's how I'd start.

[odin_dax]

By Alien I meant an intelligent, extraterrestrial being.

Out of nothing more than curiosity, if God exists, would you consider Him an alien?

Evidence is not proof.

I'll admit that "evidence" and "proof" aren't 100% interchangeable, but evidence is often proof.

Does anyone else think that the recent formation of the EU, and similar unions which are being planned is suspicious? If I was going to take over the world covertly, then that's how I'd start.

Given the structure of the EU, I'd have to say no. It makes sense to form unions because the world is ever changing. It's growing smaller by the minute and competition is too great. The EU, for example, doesn't eliminate national identities or diminish territorial claims, but makes it easier to transact business. It would make sense for many African nations as well, given how weak they are by themselves.

The purpose of NAFTA on the other hand....

[.VX]

Out of nothing more than curiosity, if God exists, would you consider Him an alien?

Yes. Would you?

Given the structure of the EU, I'd have to say no. It makes sense to form unions because the world is ever changing. It's growing smaller by the minute and competition is too great. The EU, for example, doesn't eliminate national identities or diminish territorial claims, but makes it easier to transact business. It would make sense for many African nations as well, given how weak they are by themselves.

The purpose of NAFTA on the other hand....

Still, it doesn't take much to create regulations, "standards" and Government councils that extent their power over the entire EU. A few reptillian shapeshifters/illuminati (yes, this was mostly a joke) just have to sign some papers. The NAFTA will have a common currency within the next year or so.

Just on a side note, does anyone here know much about David Icke?

[odin_dax]

Yes. Would you?

Tough question. I'll answer it assuming everything about Him is true...

Well, He isn't here now, but He created life. His hand caused the world we live on to be created. Jesus was here, but not right now. We can pray, and the Holy Spirit may guide us. Given that the Holy Spirit is Him, as I was taught, then He is here and not here, so alien and not alien (in the context we talked about). I'd say more "yes" He is here, than "no", so He isn't an alien.

Still, it doesn't take much to create regulations, "standards" and Government councils that extent their power over the entire EU. A few reptillian shapeshifters/illuminati (yes, this was mostly a joke) just have to sign some papers. The NAFTA will have a common currency within the next year or so.

Just on a side note, does anyone here know much about David Icke?

I know David Icke is a complete whack-job. Lizard people running the world.... :chairshot

NAFTA will never have a common currency.

[Th0r]

David Icke is a retard. Listen to his speeches and you will know what I mean.

[.VX]

Tough question. I'll answer it assuming everything about Him is true...

Well, He isn't here now, but He created life. His hand caused the world we live on to be created. Jesus was here, but not right now. We can pray, and the Holy Spirit may guide us. Given that the Holy Spirit is Him, as I was taught, then He is here and not here, so alien and not alien (in the context we talked about). I'd say more "yes" He is here, than "no", so He isn't an alien.

Whether someone is an alien or not depends on their origins, not where they are now.

So you're open to the idea that God could be an extraterestrial capable of creating, or atleast engineering life?

I know David Icke is a complete whack-job. Lizard people running the world.... :chairshot

NAFTA will never have a common currency.

I think that there is some truth in a lot of the stuff he says, he just doesn't present himself very well. I don't think that blood-drinking, shape-shifting lizard-people hybrids are secretly taking over the world, but I'm open to the possibility of it (not necessarily all of those things, but any combination of them). Shape shifting, reptillian humanoids who live under the earth are pretty common themes in ancient history and religion. Interestingly, I read something about some scientist's proposed theory of how reptillian humanoids could have possibly evolved had the dinosaurs not been mostly wiped out.

After I said that about the NAFTA having it's own currency within one year I did think about the uproar from the American antionalists if that happened. It seems pretty convenient that Obama has been voted in, when he clearly doesn't value the constitution, or nationalism very much.

I don't know what to think; I'm completely against the constitution, and nationalism (mostly), but at the same time, it's their attitudes that are going to help fight a NWO.

[FAZEone]

Alien lifeform and other similar species do not exist.

In my honest, humble opinion.

[.VX]

What makes you think that?

[FAZEone]

Let me link you back to my previous post. I'm protestant, by the way.

Hah..

Well, VX, what about the recounts and sightings of people being miraculoulsy healed of something? Or people being touched by God's power causing them to fall in a fit of hysterics? Or maybe the few people who claim to have visited or seen Heaven or Hell?

Your point on the alien sightings and such remains null. If you believe in aliens, do you also believe in the many ancient gods? Such as the Greeks, Romans, Aztecs etc gods? What about spirits, evil and good beings? "Monsters" that you would read about in a science fiction book?

[.VX]

Was there an argument, or even a point to anything you just said?

[FAZEone]

Nah, I was just asking you questions.

[odin_dax]

Whether someone is an alien or not depends on their origins, not where they are now.

So you're open to the idea that God could be an extraterestrial capable of creating, or atleast engineering life?

Well, isn't that the concept? Or are you now narrowing the definition of alien to mean "alien like humans -- flesh, blood, linear, limited existence"?


I think that there is some truth in a lot of the stuff he says, he just doesn't present himself very well. I don't think that blood-drinking, shape-shifting lizard-people hybrids are secretly taking over the world, but I'm open to the possibility of it (not necessarily all of those things, but any combination of them). Shape shifting, reptillian humanoids who live under the earth are pretty common themes in ancient history and religion. Interestingly, I read something about some scientist's proposed theory of how reptillian humanoids could have possibly evolved had the dinosaurs not been mostly wiped out.

What truth do you think he says? Do you know what a failure he is? Did you know he claimed to be the son of God? Did you know he wrote about aliens from the constellation Draco being controllers of the earth?
Seriously, VX, I thought you were more intelligent. With so many points against him and his mental state, what credibility does he have? Why believe anything he says? He's like L. Ron Hubbard, a good writer, but he's nothing more.
Why do people continue to believe what they want to believe in the face of cold-hard facts? You can't selectively believe some parts of his writings as truth because you want to believe them without fact, and then reject some parts his writings because you think he's a wacko. His writings are a whole, so you can't selective say there is a NWO but then say it's not run by aliens!

Logic is man's best and loneliest friend....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke#Early_life_and_career

[.VX]

Well, isn't that the concept? Or are you now narrowing the definition of alien to mean "alien like humans -- flesh, blood, linear, limited existence"?

"I'd say more "yes" He is here, than "no", so He isn't an alien." I thought you were saying that he isn't an alien because he's here. It's almost 4:30am, and I'm too tired to be thinking about this kind of stuff.


What truth do you think he says? Do you know what a failure he is? Did you know he claimed to be the son of God? Did you know he wrote about aliens from the constellation Draco being controllers of the earth?
Seriously, VX, I thought you were more intelligent. With so many points against him and his mental state, what credibility does he have? Why believe anything he says? He's like L. Ron Hubbard, a good writer, but he's nothing more.
Why do people continue to believe what they want to believe in the face of cold-hard facts? You can't selectively believe some parts of his writings as truth because you want to believe them without fact, and then reject some parts his writings because you think he's a wacko. His writings are a whole, so you can't selective say there is a NWO but then say it's not run by aliens!

Logic is man's best and loneliest friend....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke#Early_life_and_career

No, I know that. Why can't I say that people a conspiring to create a NWO , but those people aren't really lizard-men in disguise? I don't believe parts of his bullshit because I want to. I believe certain aspects of some of his claims. We both believe that there are different levels of consciousness, for example. I believe that for reasons that have nothing to do with him. I've "done my research" as you'd say, so I've come to those conlusions seperately.

[odin_dax]

"I'd say more "yes" He is here, than "no", so He isn't an alien." I thought you were saying that he isn't an alien because he's here. It's almost 4:30am, and I'm too tired to be thinking about this kind of stuff.

You asked me for my opinion. On the matter, I said He wasn't alien.

You also said that He could be an extraterrestrial capable of creating life. He is capable of creating life. And he could be extraterrestrial, but many Christians believe He is ever present, though maybe not physically.

Taken literally, God existing before Earth was created means He's alien, by your definition. As I just said, He, if He exists of course, is quite capable of creating life.

No, I know that. Why can't I say that people a conspiring to create a NWO , but those people aren't really lizard-men in disguise? I don't believe parts of his bullshit because I want to. I believe certain aspects of some of his claims. We both believe that there are different levels of consciousness, for example. I believe that for reasons that have nothing to do with him. I've "done my research" as you'd say, so I've come to those conlusions seperately.

Great! Perhaps you would like to share your information sources, because unlike matters of faith, the issue of David Icke (the next L Ron Hubbard) and his speculations is a matter of fact and evidence. What evidence does David Icke or others like him provide that makes you think there is a NWO? What are they controlling? What do they want?

[icharianchem]

I think as the resident mystic its time for me to weigh in. I think alot of the disagreements presented in above thread result largely for a separate definition of terms and the distinction between allowing for the possibility to exist and believing in something.
For my own part I refuse to close the skys and take the majik out of the world. I believe in God, i believe in angels, I believe in any number of spirits that can manifest themselves in a plethora of ways (be they ghosts or lizard people), I believe in the Loch Ness monster but largely because I want to less for evidence. I believe in freaky shadowy figures standing beside your bed because they stand by mine. Then again i believe in men and I have yet to meet one of those.
I also think it is vain conceit to believe that science should account for all these things. The things we know about the world has filled our libraries. The things we dont know could fill the Marianas Trench. Animals can perceive colours that we cant, who is to say that the lizard creatures arent one of those colours. This argument could go on ad nausem so let me summarize. Dont be so quick to discount things simply because they are difficult to understand. This is like trying to explain a trip to some one who has never touched psychedelics, you sound like a gitbag burn out and they still dont get it.

[.VX]

You asked me for my opinion. On the matter, I said He wasn't alien.

You also said that He could be an extraterrestrial capable of creating life. He is capable of creating life. And he could be extraterrestrial, but many Christians believe He is ever present, though maybe not physically.

Taken literally, God existing before Earth was created means He's alien, by your definition. As I just said, He, if He exists of course, is quite capable of creating life.

His supposed omnipresence does come as a problem while attempting to explain Him (to a certain degree) with science. Anyway, why are we talking about this?



Great! Perhaps you would like to share your information sources, because unlike matters of faith, the issue of David Icke (the next L Ron Hubbard) and his speculations is a matter of fact and evidence. What evidence does David Icke or others like him provide that makes you think there is a NWO? What are they controlling? What do they want?

I know (or at least used to, in some cases( some guys who were into astral projection, and shamanism with on guy.i believe that they could atleast be 'in touch' with other plains of conscsiousness, whether or not their "soul" actually left EArth, or whether their minds were just in tune with other worlds I couldn't begin to speculate on.

Nothing that Iche has said makes me think that theirs a nwo, infact i don't necessarily beleive there is. THere is evidence that other sapart fom him have put forth, but tat evidence is still not enough to convinvce me of a NWO@S existance. that evidence I've already said in this thread. I believe n the posibility of one, but Im yet to be convinved. And I dont think you need to be told what a new World Order would want.

[.VX]

Animals can perceive colours that we cant, who is to say that the lizard creatures arent one of those colours.

I'd be thinking more along the lines of dark matter.

Also, sorry about the above post. It still makes sense, so I'll let it be.

[icharianchem]

yeah Im not implying that i have any insider info or anything, I m just asking that we not cap the universe so lightly

[Pimpin4Life30]

My faith isn't blind. There have been countless accounts of documented miracles, there were plenty of witnesses at the time of Jesus, and before! The earliest years of Christianity had followers that died for their beliefs.


Muslims are doing the same thing now.

Weres the proof aliens dont exist ?

[Th0r]

Pimpin' - Christians were persecuted and murdered. Muslims choose to announce Fatwas and kill themselves. If you have watched Monty Python: The Life Of Brian, you'll know about the suicide squad. Christians generally speaking aren't like that.

[odin_dax]

Weres the proof aliens dont exist ?

Again, I never said aliens don't exist. :sigh1:

Also, I can't prove a negative! :hitwithro

[.VX]

On this topic, discussing truth is stupid, and repetitive. Let's speak in terms of evidence.

[DJ Poppinfresh]

On this topic, discussing truth is stupid, and repetitive. Let's speak in terms of evidence.

That's a stretch.

The alien issue needs to be put on a new thread.

But, in my opinion, alien life DOES exist, but not INTELLIGENT alien life.

Think about how many separate species of animals we have on earth. I'm going to take a random guess and say 200,000. Now, out of that 200,000, only ONE is of an intelect capable of any sort of creation.

But my figures are wrong, in a way, because I'm not ruling in creatures from classes other than animalia.

How about bacteria? The only alien life we are going to find in the next million years is most likely going to be some sort of bacteria on a planet revolving a star other than our own.

[.VX]

There are A LOT more than 200,000 species in the world. There are hundreds of millions, and quite a few of them are capable of 'creation'. It's no coincedence that humans are the only species on Earth that could even come close to interstellar travel, it's because we happened to kill off all the other species that could ever evolve into something as intelligent as humans. That's just natural selection. It would happen more or less the same way on any planet with similar, or the same conditions as Earth, of which there are several that have been documented, and estimated to be thousands more in the Milky Way alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .VX
On this topic, discussing truth is stupid, and repetitive. Let's speak in terms of evidence.

That's a stretch.

Care to explain?

[odin_dax]

Well, this is an aliens thread now... :rippedhan

Well, given the odds, conditions required and relative youth of the universe, we could be the only intelligent species or we could be the most advanced species. The fact that alien life hasn't been proven to exist doesn't mean that it doesn't. Likewise, because aliens haven't been proven to exist doesn't mean they do simply because the universe is big.

We have been listening for any kind of signal for decades. Given that radio signals travel at the speed of light, you'd think we would have heard something by now, if there were indeed any alien civilization that existed at the relative distance over a period of time.

I think the odds that a more intelligent alien species even exists in the Milky Way to be very remote, but that is just my feeling.

(Editing this, I caught a common mistake I made, replacing "would of" with "would've" - sound the same)

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Honestly Odin what did you think it would be about? Its the only thing we havnt really discussed from your little list in the OP

[DJ Poppinfresh]

There are A LOT more than 200,000 species in the world. There are hundreds of millions, and quite a few of them are capable of 'creation'. It's no coincedence that humans are the only species on Earth that could even come close to interstellar travel, it's because we happened to kill off all the other species that could ever evolve into something as intelligent as humans. That's just natural selection. It would happen more or less the same way on any planet with similar, or the same conditions as Earth, of which there are several that have been documented, and estimated to be thousands more in the Milky Way alone.

I don't know about you, but I can't think of many animals that would know the Earth is round, let alone knowing that those little blips of light in the sky are swirling balls of gas several light years away.

Also, 200,000 - as I explained - Was purely for arguments sake. You get the picture.



Care to explain?

Seeing as we are talking on the subject of Aliens, Ghosts and lizard people (I have no idea what they are), I doubt any one of us feeble nerds can provide any evidence.

[odin_dax]

Honestly Odin what did you think it would be about? Its the only thing we havnt really discussed from your little list in the OP

I'm afraid I don't know what "OP" stands for, but I comprehend what you're trying to say. There are many topics on that list we didn't talk about, Nox.

[.VX]

On this topic, discussing truth is stupid, and repetitive. Let's speak in terms of evidence.

I just realised the mistake here, I meant to say proof, not truth. (It rhymed in my mind ... as did that))

I don't know about you, but I can't think of many animals that would know the Earth is round, let alone knowing that those little blips of light in the sky are swirling balls of gas several light years away.

Well observed ...

Seeing as we are talking on the subject of Aliens, Ghosts and lizard people (I have no idea what they are), I doubt any one of us feeble nerds can provide any evidence.
I've already provided evidence for all those things. None of it is overwhelming, and I'm not trying to convince anyone of the existence, or the nonexistence of any of those things, I'm simply providing the evidence. This is how evidence is defined ...

Evidence

1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.
2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.

You'd be more likely to believe in the existance of Lizard People if someone told you that 'people who could turn themselves into reptillian humanoids, part snake, etc ...' appear throughout ancient history and religion many times, rather if they had never even been conceived by any human before, to your knowledge. Still, just that alone is nowhere near enough to make you actually believe in them without a doubt. I'm just presenting evidence.

We have been listening for any kind of signal for decades. Given that radio signals travel at the speed of light, you'd think we would have heard something by now, if there were indeed any alien civilization that existed at the relative distance over a period of time.
If we did, then you'd dismiss it anyway.

I'm afraid I don't know what "OP" stands for, but I comprehend what you're trying to say. There are many topics on that list we didn't talk about, Nox.
OP stands for Original Post/Poster.

[odin_dax]

Evidence

1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.
2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.

You'd be more likely to believe in the existance of Lizard People if someone told you that 'people who could turn themselves into reptillian humanoids, part snake, etc ...' appear throughout ancient history and religion many times, rather if they had never even been conceived by any human before, to your knowledge. Still, just that alone is nowhere near enough to make you actually believe in them without a doubt. I'm just presenting evidence.

But since you don't believe in religion, why are you using it to support your beliefs? If lizard people did exist, where are their remains? Photos? Video?


If we did, then you'd dismiss it anyway.

More attack on the person, rather than the point. Care to address it, or are you just going to duck the issue (again)?

After making that statement, you obviously don't know me well enough to infer any decision or opinion I would make, so please don't attempt to do so again. Thanks.


OP stands for Original Post/Poster.

Thanks.

[.VX]

But since you don't believe in religion, why are you using it to support your beliefs? If lizard people did exist, where are their remains? Photos? Video?

Just to clarify; I don't believe in Lizard people. I believe in the possibility of them. I'm using ancient religions to support my beliefs because it's still evidence. Clearly the people who followed those religions had conceived shapeshifting lizard-people hybrids, and furthermore, they believed in them for reasons we'll probably never know. Thosse reasons still have to be taken into consideration.


More attack on the person, rather than the point. Care to address it, or are you just going to duck the issue (again)?

After making that statement, you obviously don't know me well enough to infer any decision or opinion I would make, so please don't attempt to do so again. Thanks.

So you wouldn't dismiss someone's claims that they've recieved some kind of message from an alien life form? If so, then what's the difference between someone claiming that, and someone claiming to have been abducted by aliens? Or would it be subjective, and depend on the evidence?

In regards to aliens trying to communicate with us; there could be plenty of reasons why we supposedly haven't picked anything up. We mightn't be able to distinguish it as intelligent communication, we might not have the technology to recieve their messages, or they might not have the technology to send it in a way that we'd recieve it, or they could just want to remain hidden for a plethora of different possible reasons.

Thanks.
'Tis ok, the majority of my knowledge of internet acronyms comes from Rorta.

[odin_dax]

So you wouldn't dismiss someone's claims that they've recieved some kind of message from an alien life form? If so, then what's the difference between someone claiming that, and someone claiming to have been abducted by aliens? Or would it be subjective, and depend on the evidence?

Not saying that, only that if NASA or some credible, scientific organization received "intelligent" communication or radio signals (like content on our radios) and anything found was confirmed, I would believe aliens exist.

People claiming alien abductions are:

1. Mentally ill OR stupid

2. Poor and live in the country

3. Looking for fame

4. Looking for money

5. Have no hard evidence or proof

6. Have no alien DNA traces

[.VX]

Not saying that, only that if NASA or some credible, scientific organization received "intelligent" communication or radio signals (like content on our radios) and anything found was confirmed, I would believe aliens exist.


You'd only believe that aliens exist if there was proof? Well, I can see that this discussion isn't really going anywhere then.

People claiming alien abductions are:

1. Mentally ill OR stupid

2. Poor and live in the country

3. Looking for fame

4. Looking for money

5. Have no hard evidence or proof

6. Have no alien DNA traces

Yes, we've already established that we both think that most, if not all of reported alien abductions are full of shit.

[odin_dax]

You'd only believe that aliens exist if there was proof? Well, I can see that this discussion isn't really going anywhere then.

Forgive me for acting like most people and nearly all scientists.

I've addressed the issue of aliens existing already, and I've addressed the issue of aliens visiting Earth already.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Well done odin, OP=Original Post.

Should have said most believable.

[malefic internicine]

someone in this thread mentioned the fact that other creatures can see different colors than we do and such.
what if the aliens and/or lizard men not saying i believe in either but I'm not saying I've concluded they don't exist could be seen by other creatures that aren't necessarily humans or humans with a genetic mutation that allowed them to see them.
as for video/photo evidence the color theory would support the reason there is none.
lets say the aliens and or lizard men had a sort of skin that reflected a color of light we cannot see and therefore they are invisible to us.
as for the alien communications who is to say if there is extraterrestrial life they have the technology to send communication signals we can receive they could have some sort of communications device that differs from our own.
and a planet holding life could contain different materials than ours.
in other words different energy sources and other things causing their technology to differ from our own.
as for the quality of this post i am extremely tired at the moment so it may not be at its best.

but as a point i am trying to reach you cannot prove or disprove either way and youre reasons for believing in them or not are your own but trying to suade someone from theire beliefs because of your own is inefficient and pointless since no ones theories can be proved or have enough evidence to even be close to being proved. so believing either way is based on the litttle evidence available and therefore should not be strongly believed in or cannot be strongly believed in unless through ignorance or assumptions.