Dust explosions...

[True Sounds]

:popcorn: yes even the dust or vapors can explode so, just elaborate on that and that will be todays lesson.For Example (corn dust to name a recent two days ago I think .) I think it was on the news,yesterday.

[.VX]

There's a difference between being flammable and being an explosive.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Have a hose runnig from the bottom of a funnel up to your mouth.
Fill funnel with flour.
Blu-tack 2 candles opposite each other.
Light said candles.
Blow and watch the fireball.

[torcher]

There's a difference between being flammable and being an explosive.

right, its not an explosive, but put into an airtight container, caught on fire, the grain dust will explode.

just look up grain elevator explosions.

[crazy white guy]

You guys have it a bit wrong. When the dust particles are in the air they more effectively use the oxygen in the atmosphere and burn as if it was mixed with an oxidizer. My dad did a demonstration of this with a propane torch, pile of sawdust and an air compressor. Under 90% of people's definitions of "explosive" or "explosion" this is an explosion. My definition is: a rapid expansion of gas(ses).

This can work as an explosive but its not very damaging at all. It'd require either a two/three stage explosive to get the particles in the right environment or some kinda of compressed gas system. The only time I can see this as being practical is if you had to sneak the devices components into the area where you knew there would be a charged air cylinder and a lot of sawdust/flour/soft metal powder.

put into an airtight container, caught on fire, the grain dust will maybe burn burt probably just singe.

Fixed. Why would it explode if it was in an airtight contained? thats completely absurd.

[Th0r]

You guys have it a bit wrong. When the dust particles are in the air they more effectively use the oxygen in the atmosphere and burn as if it was mixed with an oxidizer. My dad did a demonstration of this with a propane torch, pile of sawdust and an air compressor. Under 90% of people's definitions of "explosive" or "explosion" this is an explosion. My definition is: a rapid expansion of gas(ses).



A standard dictionary definition standardised.

[crazy white guy]

A standard dictionary definition standardised.

That didn't make sense to me. Most people have the right definition of what an explosion is, but there's always the retards and people who don't understand what an explosion is. eg "when things break in different directions very fast" and "the thing that a bomb does". I'm not shitting you, I have actually hear both of these in person.

[Th0r]

There's a post on &T where someone said something along the lines of - "An explosion is when something blows up lol". Anyway this isn't on topic.

Actually what was the topic?

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Its a true sounds thread, is there ever a point?

[True Sounds]

http://dc99.4shared.com/img/78479787/6f9b1da9/662220_Explosive_Dusts_by_Lecker.pdf (http://www.4shared.com/file/78479787/6f9b1da9/662220_Explosive_Dusts_by_Lecker.html)

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

HOLYSHITFUCK:hypnotize true sounds gave more information on his posts!! Somebody take a freakin photo!

[Th0r]

HOLYSHITFUCK:hypnotize true sounds gave more information on his posts!! Somebody take a freakin photo!

Pity he linked us to Seymour Lecker. A well known kewl.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Pity he linked us to Seymour Lecker. A well known kewl.


:chairshot Suppose i should have checked it out before i said anything

[Th0r]

I'm posting several reviews for the above book. Courtesy of Amazon.

By A Customer
I was shocked and angry after I've buyed this book,it was a waste of $8.00,due Seymour Lecker discovers in his book chemical substances never heard even by chemists and they are so hard to find, so expensive and so sophisticated that reading and buying this book is simply a waste of time. And his ideas and devices how to make the dusts explosive already failed.

1/5.

Another review...

By A Customer
Perhaps Lecker is just trying to cash in on his flashy, tantalizing titles to attract attention and to get rich selling worthless tidbits of information to truly concerned, honest and patriotic citizens of the world.
Lecker had 56 pages in which to honestly provide the information he purportedly offered to sell his potential readers, but instead, he provided his readers with a mere listing of 39 mostly unobtainable exotic industrial chemicals and metal dusts which might become explosive in dispersed dust form, with a 20 to 50 word very general and brief description of each, but nothing on how to use them or avoid explosions.

On one page he listed the names ONLY of 30 foods, that if powered could become explosive under certain conditions, which he did not even describe. He just listed the names of the foods.

For all the information he supplied all he had to do was to tell the reader in one sentence that if you take ANY substance, especially any organic matter, and if you powder it, it will become explosive if it is dispersed in the air, and it is properly ignited.

For the information I just stated in the above sentence, I should be paid as much as Lecker for his entire book.

Lecker includes 3 drawings of explosive devices used to disperse the dusts but does not describe how to construct them and gives no further details nor how they operate nor safety precautions to observe. The fact that he leaves out this important information may be due in part as to why he titled this book: Explosive Dusts - ADVANCED Improvised Explosives. Since he purports to relay ADVANCED information, he may expect the reader to know everything he leaves out????? Wouldn't it have been better to just repeat some of his basic information he published in his more basic books??? But, maybe he couldn't because so far ALL of his books are written the same: NO useable information.

Again, as in his other books, Lecker has one redeeming value in his book: he lists 8 sources in a bibliography on explosive dusts, but this could have been obtained from a library catalog card file!

Sadly, again, I must advise the prospective reader to totally forget this book, don't waste his or her money, time, effort, and frustration and go to the library instead.



Again 1/5.

[True Sounds]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dust-explosions-temperature-d_394.html
http://www.zinio.com/pages/PopularMechanics/Aug-08/274939513/pg-87http://www.zinio.com/pages/PopularMechanics/Aug-08/274939513/pg-87

[Th0r]

Care to explain?

[True Sounds]

Care to explain?
Those were the books I found
about the Dust explosions on the web.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Maybe Seymour Lecker=True Sounds.

[True Sounds]

Maybe Seymour Lecker=True Sounds.

I think If you do a quick google search you will find an assload of info on this particular topic.:smoker:

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

No results on google for Seymour Lecker=True Sounds

[Yafmot]

Have you guys not heard of a thermobaric weapon? One of the more common types uses nano sized Al powder, and that's a dust explosion of the first order.

Back about 25-30 yeqrs ago, I remember seeing an aerial photo of a huge grain elevatoer in Texas. The thing was about 20 stories high, and chunks many times the size of a boxcar were strewn over a quarter-mile. The energy required to move that much mass that far, that fast, is incomprehensible.

And under ideal conditions, the VOD can, indeed, go supersonic. The two main driving factors are surface area & stoichiometry.

[SoDak]

This is the reason powder coffee creamer was removed from prisons

[iceniner]

Wow, is that true? It doesn't surprise me. That stuff is more flammable than seems possible even if you just pour out a little packet over a flame.

[SoDak]

try filling a straw with powdered creamer then blow it into an open flame. It make a decent improvised flame thrower. Good to blind a guard like that.

[Th0r]

There are a lot of other things such as custard powder, which create massive flames when blown onto an open flame.

[Yafmot]

Again, I must make reference to Mark's Standard Handbook For Mechanical Engineers. In the Fuels and Explosives section, there's a chapter on Dust Explosions that goes into quite a bit of detail about things like pressures and temperatures generated, minimum input energies to initiate, and lots of other stuff.

And it's not for nothing that grain elevators and other vessels where floating dust may collect are required to have Nitrogen blanketing or some other form of inerting. Usually, this is in the form of a membrane separator. Clean, compressed air is pumped in one end, and there are two outlets, one for the N2, and the other for the remaining gases, primarily oxygen. The N2 is piped into the elevator, and the othert stuff is vented to ambient or, if the volume is worth it, such as in a larger operation, it is piped away for further refinement. Since these requirements were put in place, the incidence of large dust explosions has been reduced to the point where, in nearly every remaining case, the failure of the blanketing system was involved, and listed as a major contributing factor.

You guys need to start doing your homework.

[-=HeX=-]

Yafmot: Thanks again for the epic info :D

I have been doing a bit of work on Al powder based ones , for 'fun'.

I took a standard, primed shotgun cartridge, removed the shot, wadding and powder.

Poured in a teaspoon of fine 'lift' grade black powder, and filled the rest with very fine Al powder. The top was sealed up after re-folding, with a drop of wax.

A large ball-bearing was taped to the primer, and streamers were affixed so it would land primer-end down.

When 'lobbed' in a parabolic arc using a sling-shot, these things would strike the ground and make a 'bang' and a HUGE flash.

I was thinking of them as cheap, non lethal or incendiary (depending on target, type of Al powder, etc) cluster-bomb submunitions, or as non-lethal 'flash grenades' to be launched en-masse using a big catapult, or a kind of pneumatic cannon.

[iceniner]

Yafmot: What would happen if butane was used for the damping system, and finely milled aluminum powder was used instead of flour?

[-=HeX=-]

Iceniner: Butane alone will not burn. It needs oxygen...

Add a tiny bit of oxygen and we have a dangerous mix though...

The damping system Yafmot refers to is how they stop these things from happening.

[iceniner]

I know, it was just my idea of a little joke.

[-=HeX=-]

Ah. I am not used to people making jokes in an explosive section...

Generally it is a bad idea.

[iceniner]

A bad place to make funny jokes about butane being used in place of an inert gas?

[-=HeX=-]

Well, you know. Some retard may get the wrong idea :P

[torcher]

back on topic if this thread is gonna stay open please.

[iceniner]

How about this: Go ahead and lock the thread.