Cryptozoology

[.VX]

Cryptozoology (from Greek κρυπτός, kruptos, "hidden" + zoology; literally, "study of hidden animals") is the study of and search for animals which fall outside of contemporary zoological catalogs. It consists of two primary fields of research:

1. The search for living examples of animals taxonomically identified through fossil records, but which are believed to be extinct.

2. The search for animals that fall outside of taxonomic records due to a lack of empirical evidence, but for which anecdotal evidence exists in the form of myths, legends, or undocumented sightings.

-Wikipedia

Does anyone think that there is any truth to cryptids such as Yetis and Nessie? Does anyone here claim to have seen any cryptids? And any other discussion on cryptozoology.

(I don't want this to turn into a discussion of 'whether there's enough evidence to prove anything, etc...')

[odin_dax]

It's funny that you should say you don't want any proof or evidence discussions in a scientific thread....


1. There have been numerous examples of finding living specimens of species thought to be extinct.

Given that, I guess this thread is just a guise to bring up topics already discussed on this board. Lame.


2a) Nessie - NO EVIDENCE!!!! There's nothing to have me believe Nessie exists, especially for all these years.

2b) I think Yeti/Bigfoot could be a man with a hair growth disorder, like real "werewolves", but the numbers are false. Maybe long ago, the first few sightings of such a man were real, but like all myths and legends, the story is better in the retelling. How often do people stretch the truth to make a story more interesting?



2b sums up my beliefs on the issue of cryptids, that they're all based on stretched truth.

[RoundElephant]

Cryptozoology (from Greek κρυπτός, kruptos, "hidden" + zoology; literally, "study of hidden animals") is the study of and search for animals which fall outside of contemporary zoological catalogs. It consists of two primary fields of research:

1. The search for living examples of animals taxonomically identified through fossil records, but which are believed to be extinct.

2. The search for animals that fall outside of taxonomic records due to a lack of empirical evidence, but for which anecdotal evidence exists in the form of myths, legends, or undocumented sightings.

-Wikipedia

Does anyone think that there is any truth to cryptids such as Yetis and Nessie? Does anyone here claim to have seen any cryptids? And any other discussion on cryptozoology.

(I don't want this to turn into a discussion of 'whether there's enough evidence to prove anything, etc...')

I have had one unexplained experience in my life and I swear by it. I was out at 11 o'clock June 07. My friend and i were riding bikes when I thought I saw a fox come out of the bushes 100 yards up the bike path, then it looked like a cyclist, but then i realized it was a creature no taller then 4 feet. It was running at incredible speeds (25 mph). It was zig zagging down the path. I was s frightened I took a right and left the area.


The creature was kind of a glowing tan/yellow color.

[.VX]

Odin, I want this to be about possible theories, and anecdotes from members. Not about evidence, and likelihood.


RE, when you say that the creature was no more than four foot tall, do you mean at the shoulder? Because I'm thinking that it could possibly be a "phantom cat" of some kind.

Has anyone here read Chuck Palahniuk's 'Haunted'? I think that ther theory presented in The Missing Link's story to be pretty interesting, although I haven't really looked into it too much.

[RoundElephant]

I mean in total. It was so short yet so fast, it scared the living shit out of me. And it didn't even follow the path completely it zig zagged on and off of it.

[Th0r]

I have had one unexplained experience in my life and I swear by it. I was out at 11 o'clock June 07. My friend and i were riding bikes when I thought I saw a fox come out of the bushes 100 yards up the bike path, then it looked like a cyclist, but then i realized it was a creature no taller then 4 feet. It was running at incredible speeds (25 mph). It was zig zagging down the path. I was s frightened I took a right and left the area.


The creature was kind of a glowing tan/yellow color.

I would have reported it.

As a bit of a sceptic, I remain unconvinced by these accounts. Don't interpret that statement as me assuming that you are a liar. What I mean is that I believe that in most of these instances there has to be a legitimate and valid explanation.

RE, when you say that the creature was no more than four foot tall, do you mean at the shoulder? Because I'm thinking that it could possibly be a "phantom cat" of some kind.

The Phantom Cat phenomenon has been prominent in my area and the theory is these cats are wild cats that were held in captivity such as Circuses and whatnot. When animal-rights bodies moved in, all these animals had to be gotten rid of. One of those ways was to let them loose into the countryside.

Personally I find that Cryptozoology is one of the most interesting aspects of biology. I'd like to think that one day extinct species could be produced from the partial amounts of DNA retrieved from them and could roam the Earth again.

Whilst unlikely I do believe that effectively resurrecting extinct species is possible.

[.VX]

I agree.

RE, you should tell people about what you saw on a website like cryptozoology.com, or something. Tell them the area, and see if anyone else has seen something similar.

[RoundElephant]

This is how it went down.
The red circle is where I saw it emerge and the green circle is where my friend and I were.

I didn't have the balls to see where it went, I took off when I saw it and kept looking back.


That dirt patch is the baseball diamond of an Elementary school.

[.VX]

I didn't realise that it was running towards you. Like I said, you should go on some forums and see if anyone else has seen it.

Also, I think that that's your email adress in the picture.

[odin_dax]

Round, for your protection, I removed the picture. I'd be cautious of using photobucket because it's easy to snoop into other folders. Also, you provided too much personal information. Even though your house wasn't pictured, the area may be close to your house. I don't know if you posted a member photo... Your e-mail was visible too.

If you want to post photo, please use a smudge tool to block out city names, e-mails, etc., etc.

[RoundElephant]

Here's the edited photo

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Thats what me a nd VX were getting at RoundE, just less direct as 0din.

i always snoop into other photos on there sharing accounts.

[odin_dax]

That's why I keep everything as separate from each other as possible. I have e-mail accounts for spam and forced-to-register sites. I have an e-mail for sites like these where I use a handle. I have an e-mail for personal stuff, and my FB and Myspace are private too. In fact, I'm so private about FB, that my relatives aren't allowed to tag photos of me and I blocked them from posting and viewing friends and photos. I'm not at all worried that my friends and acquaintances will ever stalk me or my family, but I'm paranoid and careful about such things.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

LOL i only have one address, im not so worried about someone following me because new faces attract attention here, stagnant little town with little tourism influx.

Working were i work i encounter everyone in this town at least once a week.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

VX i must say i belive there is a species of Big Cat in Australia, there is even some dreamtime stories depicting giant like cats. There has been numerous reportings this year compared to others but no real TV news coverage or story, just the paper.

[.VX]

Sixty Minutes did a report on phantom cats! But it was Sixty minutes, so it was more along the lines of "Big cats, be scared! 100% of youths are on drugs! Our team of experts think ..." etc ... so it doesn't count. I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are plenty of big cats in Australia (especially around the Great Divide), but I think that they're just panthers or something. Most of the Dream Time stories are more intended to teach morals and such, rather than be taken literally. I think that they've been introduced by settlers or something.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Sixty Minutes did a report on phantom cats! But it was Sixty minutes, so it was more along the lines of "Big cats, be scared! 100% of youths are on drugs! Our team of experts think ..." etc ... so it doesn't count. I wouldn't doubt for a second that there are plenty of big cats in Australia (especially around the Great Divide), but I think that they're just panthers or something. Most of the Dream Time stories are more intended to teach morals and such, rather than be taken literally. I think that they've been introduced by settlers or something.

Sixty minutes as a resouce hahaha, almost as bad as Today Tonight.

I think you may be right with the settlers. Even still it is possible that they were here before Europeans.

[.VX]

Yeah, I don't think that Australia has any native big cats, but they might've been introduced in the same way that Dingoes were.

[FAZEone]

VX i must say i belive there is a species of Big Cat in Australia, there is even some dreamtime stories depicting giant like cats. There has been numerous reportings this year compared to others but no real TV news coverage or story, just the paper.

There have been loads of reports of a 'drop cat' around the valley near my suburb. I swear I saw it once, but it was huge... about the size of large great dane?
So yeah, AUS definitely has some big cats around.

[xx_hellraiser_xx]

These are very interesting stories. I'm going to look into cryptozoology.

[digermane]

I have had one unexplained experience in my life and I swear by it. I was out at 11 o'clock June 07. My friend and i were riding bikes when I thought I saw a fox come out of the bushes 100 yards up the bike path, then it looked like a cyclist, but then i realized it was a creature no taller then 4 feet. It was running at incredible speeds (25 mph). It was zig zagging down the path. I was s frightened I took a right and left the area.


The creature was kind of a glowing tan/yellow color.

Its called a cougar.

Edit: just saw the dates on the rest of the thread. Sorry about the (semi) necro-post.

[Th0r]

I had a similar experience not long ago.

I was walking along a footpath that runs parallel to a railway line when I saw what initially looked like the everyday cat. Upon further inspection, I realised the cat was fairly big in size terms. What struck me was not the size but the tail of the cat.

The tail of the cat was identical to that of a Puma/Panther.

I wondered if it was a hybrid of some kind. Alas.

Anyways, I found out recently that the local PD have a Cop to manage the amount of wild cat sightings, which can often exceed 300 a month.

[Abrazaderas]

they say a hundred species go extinct every day. how many new ones are born every day?
-agent fox Mulder

there are plenty of species we know nothing of. but the proportion of them that are amazing and bizarre is going to probably be similar to the proportion of the same amongst the ones we do know of, do you follow me? but think of the giant squid. that is essentially a legendary monster, which definitely exists. until recently, the scientific community would have relegated claims of such a thing to mere myth. which is proper, we don't assert unproven facts. but remain humble nonetheless because there is more in heaven and earth then is dreamed of in your philosophy, horatio.

[odin_dax]

they say a hundred species go extinct every day. how many new ones are born every day?
-agent fox Mulder

there are plenty of species we know nothing of. but the proportion of them that are amazing and bizarre is going to probably be similar to the proportion of the same amongst the ones we do know of, do you follow me? but think of the giant squid. that is essentially a legendary monster, which definitely exists. until recently, the scientific community would have relegated claims of such a thing to mere myth. which is proper, we don't assert unproven facts. but remain humble nonetheless because there is more in heaven and earth then is dreamed of in your philosophy, horatio.

It's easy to classify a new species. All it takes is some genetic difference, usually physical. The more accurate term is subspecies.

The problem is there hasn't been a major discovery in mammals or birds. Maybe there are hundreds of new species, but only very, very small creatures or in the deep sea.

[Abrazaderas]

It's easy to classify a new species. All it takes is some genetic difference, usually physical. The more accurate term is subspecies.

The problem is there hasn't been a major discovery in mammals or birds. Maybe there are hundreds of new species, but only very, very small creatures or in the deep sea.

true. we find new varieties of frogs and birds and rats in places like new guinea all the time but not much in the way of anything interesting.

unless there are animals that are naturally invisible or too fast to be seen by the naked eye. that would be sweet. i hope we find a six legged bird that can shoot lasers from it's eyes and has a penis like a horse, and yet is only the size of a dog.

[The Jinn]

they say a hundred species go extinct every day. how many new ones are born every day?

It takes a lot of time to build something up, and only a small fraction of that time to ruin it.

[Abrazaderas]

but things are building up all the time. starting every single day. meaning every single day is a potential end.

[The Jinn]

but things are building up all the time. starting every single day. meaning every single day is a potential end.


Is it easier to reduce order to disorder, or vice versa?

[Alumno]

Just a quick word to everyone talking about these GIANT cats.

While I don't believe you are definately lying, I have personally owned a very large 'tabby' cat. While not as large as a Great Dane, he was noticably taller than the 2-year-old German Shepard down the road, though also more slight in his build. I'm not saying that this is what you all saw, or that cryptids don't exist. I'm just providing an account that backs up Th0r's comment that 'most' of these sighting have a rational explanation behind them.

On a side note, does anyone know why some cats grow this big. The one I had came from a litter of seemingly similar kittens but just grew so damn big. Genetics mayhaps? Or possibly a mutation? Parents weren't big, siblings weren't big but he was...

[Abrazaderas]

Is it easier to reduce order to disorder, or vice versa?

in what case, on what scale?

as long as life exists it will be in motion, from one thing to another. order has arisen out of chaos for no reason at all, and yet, motion from a established species to a slightly different species is not a motion from order to a higher order but merely from one variation to another. it's not a process of creation, it's a process of accretion. there are far more ways to break an egg then to put it back together, but whether the velociraptor ever becomes a chicken is a function of disorder, actually. random variation of genetic material. disorder is introduced and from shivas arms a species diverges. the question is that of survival; will it reproduce?

[Th0r]

Just a quick word to everyone talking about these GIANT cats.

While I don't believe you are definately lying, I have personally owned a very large 'tabby' cat. While not as large as a Great Dane, he was noticably taller than the 2-year-old German Shepard down the road, though also more slight in his build. I'm not saying that this is what you all saw, or that cryptids don't exist. I'm just providing an account that backs up Th0r's comment that 'most' of these sighting have a rational explanation behind them.

Are we talking Maine Coon's? I have one myself that's around three foot in length stretched out. It's possible that a non pedigree Coon cat bred with another cat and that made its way into your cats ancestry. In fact that's very likely.

The cat I saw could quite easily could have been a fucking massive cat, but I didn't think it was.

[digermane]

According to the second law of thermodynamics, disorder is always increasing...

[Abrazaderas]

that's not precisely correct... and isn't precisely relevant in any case...

[digermane]

I know its not relevant, however yes it is correct. It's just stating it in laymans terms. Entropy comes from statistical mechanics as a way of quantifying disorder, and will always increase given that the system you are taking into account is large enough to take into account all relevant processes. BTW, I really hope you're not telling me I'm wrong based on the wikipedia article, because that has several errors.

[Abrazaderas]

i didn't read the wiki.

i'm telling you that entropy isn't as simple as that. order and disorder aren't as simple as that. on the medium scale, it seems to maximize the amount of possible combinations that are cycled through. however, on the minute scale, it seems to only be expressed most closely by radiation, if and only if the process by which particles decay off of radioactive material is random. and randomness is only an appearance of entropy, not the actual thing. on the massive scale, entropy does not seem to create disorder, in fact, it seems to have the property of concentration and differentiation, not randomization.

[digermane]

Entropy is a statistical expression of the level of disorder (more available states that can be occupied at each energy level by definition is a more disordered system) in a system. Entropy does not create anything, entropy is an expression that represents a property of a system.

It's largely irrelevant whether you are considering a bulk material, nano-scale material or nuclear physics. The meaning of entropy does not change, What changes are the relevant forces, the statistical distributions and the frame of reference used to find entropy in a specific state.