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.VX
6th January 2009, 02:05 AM
Scientists are talking for the first time about the old idea of resurrecting extinct species as if this staple of science fiction is a realistic possibility, saying that a living mammoth could perhaps be regenerated for as little as $10 million.

The same technology could be applied to any other extinct species from which one can obtain hair, horn, hooves, fur or feathers, and which went extinct within the last 60,000 years, the effective age limit for DNA.

Though the stuffed animals in natural history museums are not likely to burst into life again, these old collections are full of items that may contain ancient DNA that can be decoded by the new generation of DNA sequencing machines.

If the genome of an extinct species can be reconstructed, biologists can work out the exact DNA differences with the genome of its nearest living relative. There are talks on how to modify the DNA in an elephant?s egg so that after each round of changes it would progressively resemble the DNA in a mammoth egg. The final-stage egg could then be brought to term in an elephant mother, and mammoths might once again roam the Siberian steppes.

The same would be technically possible with Neanderthals, whose full genome is expected to be recovered shortly, but there would be several ethical issues in modifying modern human DNA to that of another human species.

A scientific team headed by Stephan C. Schuster and Webb Miller at Pennsylvania State University reports in Thursday?s issue of Nature that it has recovered a large fraction of the mammoth genome from clumps of mammoth hair. Mammoths, ice-age relatives of the elephant, were hunted by the modern humans who first learned to inhabit Siberia some 22,000 years ago. The mammoths fell extinct in both their Siberian and North American homelands toward the end of the last ice age, some 10,000 years ago.

Dr. Schuster and Dr. Miller said there was no technical obstacle to decoding the full mammoth genome, which they believe could be achieved for a further $2 million. They have already been able to calculate that the mammoth?s genes differ at some 400,000 sites on its genome from that of the African elephant.

There is no present way to synthesize a genome-size chunk of mammoth DNA, let alone to develop it into a whole animal. But Dr. Schuster said a shortcut would be to modify the genome of an elephant?s cell at the 400,000 or more sites necessary to make it resemble a mammoth?s genome. The cell could be converted into an embryo and brought to term by an elephant, a project he estimated would cost some $10 million. ?This is something that could work, though it will be tedious and expensive,? he said.

There have been several Russian attempts to cultivate eggs from frozen mammoths that look so perfectly preserved in ice. But the perfection is deceiving since the DNA is always degraded and no viable cells remain. Even a genome-based approach would have been judged entirely impossible a few years ago and is far from reality even now.

Still, several technical barriers have fallen in surprising ways. One barrier was that ancient DNA is always shredded into tiny pieces, seemingly impossible to analyze. But a new generation of DNA decoding machines use tiny pieces as their starting point. Dr. Schuster?s laboratory has two, known as 454 machines, each of which costs $500,000.

Another problem has been that ancient DNA in bone, the usual source, is heavily contaminated with bacterial DNA. Dr. Schuster has found that hair is a much purer source of the host?s DNA, with the keratin serving to seal it in and largely exclude bacteria.

A third issue is that the DNA of living cells can be modified only very laboriously and usually at one site at a time. Dr. Schuster said he had been in discussion with George Church, a well-known genome technologist at Harvard Medical School, about a new method Dr. Church has invented for modifying some 50,000 genomic sites at a time.

The method has not yet been published, and until other scientists can assess it they are likely to view genome engineering on such a scale as being implausible. Rudolph Jaenisch, a biologist at the Whitehead Institute in Cambridge, said the proposal to resurrect a mammoth was ?a wishful-thinking experiment with no realistic chance for success.?

Dr. Church, however, said that there had recently been enormous technical improvements in decoding genomes and that he expected similar improvements in genome engineering. In his new method, some 50,000 corrective DNA sequences are injected into a cell at one time. In the laboratory, the cell would then be grown and tested and its descendants subjected to further rounds of DNA modification until judged close enough to that of the ancient species. In the case of resurrecting the mammoth, Dr. Church said, the process would begin by taking a skin cell from an elephant and converting it to the embryonic state with a method developed last year by Dr. Shinya Yamanaka for reprogramming cells.

Asked if the mammoth project might indeed happen, Dr. Church said that ?there is some enthusiasm for it,? although making zoos better did not outrank fixing the energy crisis on his priority list.

Dr. Schuster believes that museums could prove gold mines of ancient DNA because any animal remains containing keratin, from hooves to feathers, could hold enough DNA for the full genome to be recovered by the new sequencing machines.

The full genome of the Neanderthal, an ancient human species probably driven to extinction by the first modern humans that entered Europe some 45,000 years ago, is expected to be recovered shortly. If the mammoth can be resurrected, the same would be technically possible for Neanderthals.

But the process of genetically engineering a human genome into the Neanderthal version would probably raise many objections, as would several other aspects of such a project. ?Catholic teaching opposes all human cloning, and all production of human beings in the laboratory, so I do not see how any of this could be ethically acceptable in humans,? said Richard Doerflinger, an official with the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Dr. Church said there might be an alternative approach that would ?alarm a minimal number of people.? The workaround would be to modify not a human genome but that of the chimpanzee, which is some 98 percent similar to that of people. The chimp?s genome would be progressively modified until close enough to that of Neanderthals, and the embryo brought to term in a chimpanzee.

?The big issue would be whether enough people felt that a chimp-Neanderthal hybrid would be acceptable, and that would be broadly discussed before anyone started to work on it,? Dr. Church said.

-The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/science/20mammoth.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&em

I'm not sure what to think about this. It's amazing to think that these species of extinct creatures might walk the face of this Earth once more, but something about the prospect of scientists being able to create new species seems wrong to me. Still, it's pretty interesting stuff.


Do you that this is plausible? What other prospects could this technology hold for the future? And if people are aware that any species can be brought back from extinction, will people be more likely to hunt certain creatures with no regards for thier numbers?

odin_dax
6th January 2009, 02:55 AM
-The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/science/20mammoth.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&em

I'm not sure what to think about this. It's amazing to think that these species of extinct creatures might walk the face of this Earth once more, but something about the prospect of scientists being able to create new species seems wrong to me. Still, it's pretty interesting stuff.


Do you that this is plausible? What other prospects could this technology hold for the future? And if people are aware that any species can be brought back from extinction, will people be more likely to hunt certain creatures with no regards for thier numbers?

Next time, it might be a better idea to post an excerpt and provide a link rather than posting such a looooooong post.

I think that one day people will attempt to bring back extinct species, especially those eliminated by man.

In regard to your other question, I don't think anything will change. People are already poaching endangered species illegally, and I think for the sake of the gene pool, species will remain just as protected.

RoundElephant
7th January 2009, 03:58 AM
I hate the limits ethics impose on scientific discovery.:yell:

odin_dax
7th January 2009, 04:38 AM
I hate the limits ethics impose on scientific discovery.:yell:

Nazis would agree with you...

RoundElephant
7th January 2009, 06:34 AM
Nazis would agree with you...

Well those were a little too far, hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation.
I don't think it should be illegal to create life (whether it's cloned, a human-animal hybrid, or anything).

Day_N_Night
15th February 2009, 09:03 AM
Well those were a little too far, hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation.
I don't think it should be illegal to create life (whether it's cloned, a human-animal hybrid, or anything).

Don't you think it would cruel to bring a Hybrid Creature (wether mixed with human or not) into this world? This thing would have no place to fit in at all and furthermore if it was mixed with human it might have greater faculties to understand its sorry state. It just seems like an unecessary thing to bring a creature like that into this world,which would cause it suffering in a number of ways and just by the fact that is a freak of science.

Mr.A
16th February 2009, 09:51 AM
Daynnight, I wouldn't stress it if I were you. The whole concept of genes and being able to mix and match them correctly seems impossible IMO to human beings. It might be cool if we could play God, but not in this millenia.

RoundElephant
16th February 2009, 08:39 PM
Daynnight, I wouldn't stress it if I were you. The whole concept of genes and being able to mix and match them correctly seems impossible IMO to human beings. It might be cool if we could play God, but not in this millenia.

We're WAY closer then you think. We can probably do these type of things within the next century, and even within our life times. A millennium is a long ass time, think about how much science has advanced just since the early 1900s.

Currently we can grow human organs on lab mice.
http://declubz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mouse-human-ear.jpg

REL0AD
16th February 2009, 08:55 PM
I'm betting goverments would clone certain species for use in Warfare. I can see it now, fuck germ warfare... we got clone warFare...

RoundElephant
16th February 2009, 10:47 PM
I'm betting goverments would clone certain species for use in Warfare. I can see it now, fuck germ warfare... we got clone warFare...

That seems extremely improbably, unless the creatures bread are extremely intelligent (at or human intelligence) and used for intel.

Germ warfare is much more efficient than spending 100 million to create a flying war elephant.

REL0AD
16th February 2009, 11:29 PM
I'll explain in detail later...

create a flying war elephant.

You taking the piss fool?

davey_crockshit
17th February 2009, 06:47 AM
Here's the problem...

"Why shouldn't we log the forests and wipe out the spotted owl? We have DNA samples and we can always bring them back in the future if we want."

You're damn right someone would bring out that argument......

Th0r
17th February 2009, 11:19 AM
Here's the problem...

"Why shouldn't we log the forests and wipe out the spotted owl? We have DNA samples and we can always bring them back in the future if we want."

You're damn right someone would bring out that argument......

And a counter statement would be I'd like to see proof.

odin_dax
17th February 2009, 01:56 PM
And a counter statement would be I'd like to see proof.

A better one would be lack of an immune system and a smaller gene pool (unless someone manages to gather DNA samples from every living member of a species).

REL0AD
17th February 2009, 02:07 PM
A better one would be lack of an immune system.

That's a good point. Millions of years ago diseases there would most certainly be a variety of different diseases. Also does anyone know about 'dolly the sheep', cloned and aged at a higher rate than other sheep.

I've always wondered if they would attempt to clone Hitler... :scratchch

Th0r
17th February 2009, 03:22 PM
A better one would be lack of an immune system and a smaller gene pool (unless someone manages to gather DNA samples from every living member of a species).

That's a sub-question/statement, since I'd like to see proof that it could be done in the first place.

odin_dax
17th February 2009, 07:00 PM
That's a good point. Millions of years ago diseases there would most certainly be a variety of different diseases. Also does anyone know about 'dolly the sheep', cloned and aged at a higher rate than other sheep.

I've always wondered if they would attempt to clone Hitler... :scratchch

I don't think they can clone Hitler. Unless someone has a lock of his hair, all his materials were either burned or stolen, the latter making any samples too contaminated for use, and his body was turned to ashes.

REL0AD
17th February 2009, 08:05 PM
I don't think they can clone Hitler. Unless someone has a lock of his hair, all his materials were either burned or stolen, the latter making any samples too contaminated for use, and his body was turned to ashes.

Ah ok, I was lead into thinking his skull was in a museum vault. Would it be possible to clone from bone?

Th0r
17th February 2009, 08:26 PM
Ah ok, I was lead into thinking his skull was in a museum vault. Would it be possible to clone from bone?

It's very unlikely that you could clone something from a bone. However in the future who knows.

Mr.A
18th February 2009, 08:44 AM
In the future I could see it being possible to clone from bone.

Thanks for making me disappear.:smileeek: I guess we can't just have some laughs here.

Anders Hoveland
21st January 2012, 10:47 PM
Hopefully future scientists will be able to bring back certain human ethnicities after they become extinct.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2097230
http://www.pnas.org/content/72/1/200.full.pdf

odin_dax
21st January 2012, 11:06 PM
Hopefully future scientists will be able to bring back certain human ethnicities after they become extinct.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2097230
http://www.pnas.org/content/72/1/200.full.pdf

It's amazing how ignorant racists are of genetics...

Anders Hoveland
22nd January 2012, 12:36 AM
It's amazing how ignorant racists are of genetics...

Of course one can expect comments like that coming from a self-admitted race-denier.

odin_dax
22nd January 2012, 04:54 AM
Race denier?

Beyond
22nd January 2012, 09:06 PM
Race denier?

You deny races, apparently. Shame on you.

Th0r
23rd January 2012, 10:35 PM
Jesus Christ. Within our lifetimes this will happen with more recently extinct species such as Quagga.