Knuckle dusters

[FAZEone]

I really want to make a pair of these. My friend has a weapon collection and he showed me his hand-made wooden dusters. It was very comfortable and good quality. He also had a 2 finger metal spiked one.
I was thinking of making one out of hard resin, I'll just need a mould for it though. Any ideas on the mould/material? Also could anyone recommend finger holes or just one long hole for fingers?

[torcher]

one hole per finger. the less holes you have the weaker the whole apparatus is going to be.

as for using resin to make them, it seems like it would be too brittle and if you actually hit something with them they would shatter and hurt you worse than what you're striking.

[.VX]

I know a guy who claimed to make some Brass Knuckles from epoxy resin, and he said that they worked well.

[FAZEone]

I've tested resin before and it's not really a brittle material from what I know.
With the actual holes, should there be enough spacing so that your fingers dont touch the upper parts of the holes? Or should your fingers fit nice and snug?

[torcher]

relatively loose. maybe an 1/8th of an inch from the top of your fingers to the inside if the finger hole when making a fist

[MrKant]

Knuckle Dusters are a generally stupid idea.
Not only are they unwieldly, but they're also a great way to kill someone,(in which case if you are trying to kill someone, get a better weapon, retard).
The sharp points at the end make them hard to carry around, and depending on how long the points are, they can also make them easy to break off, which would be bad, ecspecially if they broke off in some one.

Instead, you should settle for a nice pair of brass knuckles. Add much more damage to your punch, great item for self defense, and usually don't end up killing/maiming people for life unless your stupid enough to go for their domepiece.

[FAZEone]

Knuckle dusters = Brassknuckles...

And they dont have to have spikes. They can be plain rounded, or with round bulges.

[MrKant]

Knuckle dusters = Brassknuckles...
False.
http://http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/F8F/IOOV/F4T2PG6E/F8FIOOVF4T2PG6E.MEDIUM.jpg

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/201797.html

^^Both Knuckle Dusters

Knuckle Dusters are mistakenly refered as Brass Knuckles quite frequently.
Knuckle dusters have some type of sharp point at the end of them, in comparision to brass knuckles, which are rounded.

[FAZEone]

So I guess all "brass knuckles" are made out of brass then? Gee, that would be easy to make.

[MrKant]

Sarcasm duly noted.
I was simply pointing out that Brass Knuckles are not Knuckle Dusters.
Knuckle Dusters have sharp, knife like points.
Brass knuckles are rounded.

[FAZEone]

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. The thing is, it's very hard to import knuckle dusters/brass knuckles in where I live. So making them is much more practical.

[MrKant]

Not a problem.
Where do you live, no need to be specific, a simple "U.S." or "U.K." will do.
I think I have a website for you that will import them, depending upon where you live.

[FAZEone]

AUS. :sly:
If there is one that will be good.

[MrKant]

http://www.brassknucklescompany.com/CRE/

"We ship worldwide!"

The prices aren't half bad.
I can't say I've ever bought from them personally, as I usually purchase things of that nature from a real person, but I've good things about them.

[Micro]

LoL Aus, enjoy your gear in the customs.

[FAZEone]

Exactly, Micro. "We ship worldwide but if it gets confiscated too bad" pretty much.

[MrKant]

Well you could try it.
If it get's confiscated then you lost 18 dollars, really not a big deal.

[FAZEone]

The poly carbon knuckles for $12 look nice. I'm sure people have tried to import weapons before and just got them confiscated, I'm not sure if its even worth it.

[.VX]

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. The thing is, it's very hard to import knuckle dusters/brass knuckles in where I live. So making them is much more practical.

I've seen them for sale in a few markets over here. I usually won't ask the price of them, but one of them was $19.

[MrKant]

I've seen them for sale in a few markets over here. I usually won't ask the price of them, but one of them was $19.

Fact.
In the U.S. I haven't seen them go above 25 dollars.

By the way, if anyone is on brassknucklescompany
I'd like your opinion on the plastic brass knuckles. I like the concept of being able to get them through security, just not sure of their durability.

[FAZEone]

I've seen them for sale in a few markets over here. I usually won't ask the price of them, but one of them was $19.

I've seen knives, swords, katanas at markets but never knuckle dusters. VX, ever heard of Paddy's Markets? That's my closest flea market.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Try victoria/melb markets vx.

[FAZEone]

Maybe laws are different in those states Nox? I know NSW laws regarding prohibited weapons, no other states because I dont need to know them really.

[.VX]

Try victoria/melb markets vx.

I meant in Victoria.

Maybe laws are different in those states Nox? I know NSW laws regarding prohibited weapons, no other states because I dont need to know them really.
I've seen knives, swords, katanas at markets but never knuckle dusters. VX, ever heard of Paddy's Markets? That's my closest flea market.
Melbourne is in Victoria. Every now and then they're in the Carribean Market, which is the only one I've been to more than once. In regards to weapons laws, Vic is a lot more strict on them than any other Australian state.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

I couldnt remember the name of the markets

[FAZEone]

Never heard of the Carribean Market VX. Any underground/black markets in AUS? Never seen them here.

[.VX]

I don't know any places that sell them consistently, but just go to a few flea markets and you should come across some eventually.

[torcher]

brass knuckles are easily procured around here. i just have to go to the beach and look at all the fuckin headshops by the ocean. not more than $25 for a good set. although they are never sold as brass knuckles, they are sold as "paper weights"

[torcher]

holy fuck. you've got to be kidding me.

[Mr.A]

Yeah I love lead too. :gay:

To answer the question I think the single hole over the idividual holes is best. I found the individule holes doesn't allow enough movement for fingers and rubs the inside of my fingers raw. Not good.:indiffere

[iceniner]

The consensus regarding brass knuckles is that their power isn't worth the risk of brutal criminal charges due to carrying them.

There are other options like a D-ring keychain. Many of these are "coincidentally" sized to fit a male fist and many of them do it quite well. Another idea is the palm stick I mentioned in another thread: these work as fistpackers and if you get one of the ones that have a blunt point on one end they will actually inflict much worse damage than knucks if you pound them into a bony area.

In most areas you can even carry an ASP collapsible baton legally.

For more serious situations (and you certainly wouldn't want to pull or brandish knucks unless your life was threatened) you can legally carry a 4" folder which will have obvious fight-stopping results, is effectively undisarmable, can be used with the blade closed to pound with, etc etc. Furthermore, the intimidation value of a knife is much worse than that of brass knucks.

In most areas you are looking at at least three felony charges for using knuckles: carrying an illegal weapon, concealed weapons, assault and battery (possibly two separate charges), in addition to any other deviltry you may have been up to at the time. If you even so much as pull them out in anger that right there is assault with a deadly weapon.

If you are caught with a spiked knuckleduster you are almost certainly doing time. If you actually USE them you are looking at 5 to 10 AT A BARE MINIMUM because the prosecutor would charge you with attempted murder. Then they would point to the extreme, disfiguring injuries that knuckledusters tend to produce. It would not look good to the jury. All in all, it's conceivable that you would be better off being caught with a sawed-off.

Best advice: if something is an illegal weapon do NOT carry it because for every single illegal hand weapon there are options that are both better and perfectly legal to carry. Much better to go with something in a legally approved form, or better yet carry something that "is not a weapon at all" like a maglite.

Another option, if you're hepped on the whole idea of punching, is the Stinger, which is basically a T-handle with a blunt point that extends out between your fingers. Again, like the palmstick, these offer a number of compliance options short of bashing someone's face into tooth-pulp.

Just my two cents.

[MrMinister]

5-10 years minimum hahahhahaahhh....sigh. No.

Don't have time to address each thing this dude wrote but here is the summary:

bullshit.
shit.
more shit.
bullshit.
fist packers= true but use batteries or a roll of quarters to be truly stealth
shit
more bullshit
/end

[iceniner]

You could stand to be more specific than that.

You're saying you think a prosecutor, judge and jury are going to be happy about your use of brass knuckles (illegal already) with spikes protruding out of the front? What do you think the effects of that are going to be on the victim? How are the "after" shots going to look, the ones that the state patrol cops took in the emergency room while they were reconstructing the guy's face?

In some jurisdictions possession of that kind of thing alone (carried on your person) would be subject to mandatory minimums. That's one charge. You pull it out, that's assault with a deadly weapon, two. Actually using it is battery, three, and if it's knuckledusters there's no telling what else they would hit you with up to and including attempted murder. It really depends on the jurisdiction and how they are feeling that day, there could be quite a bit of variation but all of it on the high end of the scale. Remember that a great deal of the decisionmaking process with regards to charges and suchlike is in the hands of the cops, that is, the responding officers. If they even SEE spiked knuckles I can guarantee you're going to be getting hammered hard.

If you actually use them you're looking at a 5 year mandatory minimum (first degree assault) on that charge alone, sorry charlie.

You were candid in your assessment and so shall I be: if you think carrying brass knuckles or knuckledusters is a good idea when there are far better legal alternatives, you're a dumbfuck.

[StealthSeeds]

too crunk to read the whole thread read some but....I believe no one has mentioned plexy glass, easily drilled/shaved and also won't set off any alarm for that airport,court situation...

[FAZEone]

So you're pretty much saying, use any other type of weapon that is legal to carry. Such as knives, palmsticks or maglites etc.
The whole thing about knuckle dusters is using your own fists and hammering into the opponent. It's not stabbing, swinging weapons or hitting your foe with a pole of some sort.
Punching is preferable than stabbing. Stabbing a person would incur a more serious penalty would it not?

[iceniner]

So you're pretty much saying, use any other type of weapon that is legal to carry. Such as knives, palmsticks or maglites etc.

Well, unless you want the weapon you use to carry severe charges on its own apart from any use you might put it to, and in some cases mandatory minimums which I will get to below.

The whole thing about knuckle dusters is using your own fists and hammering into the opponent. It's not stabbing, swinging weapons or hitting your foe with a pole of some sort.
Punching is preferable than stabbing. Stabbing a person would incur a more serious penalty would it not?

This is kind of a complicated answer.

Spiked knuckledusters are NOT ACCEPTABLE UNDER THE LAW, ANYWHERE, PERIOD. Just forget about it.

If you're talking about brass knuckles as distinct from spiked knuckledusters, and if you're talking about actually using them on someone, you are most likely better off using the knuckles than a knife, but again, they would be considered a deadly weapon which would mean felony assault if you used them on somebody, and as I stated above, that charge (assault one) carries mandatory minimums around five years in most jurisdictions in the US.

My guess would be that you're not going to get much of a lighter sentence for knuckles over a knife if you actually harm someone with the knuckles, but it really depends.

If you don't use the weapon, you don't need the risk of being busted with it while driving or whatever, or as an add-on along with other charges, which could cause severe legal problems and may in itself carry mandatory minimums depending on where you are.

If you do need to use the weapon-- really need to save your life, that is-- a knife is far preferable, possibly even under the eyes of the law since it does actually have another purpose, other than just fucking people up, a reason why you might plausibly be carrying them. Second, a knife is a far better weapon than brass knuckles.

Furthermore, you also need to consider the nature of the injuries that brass knuckles inflict, and how those injuries are going to look in court. If you're operating on the assumption that you are going to hit the guy and he's going to get a black eye and that'll be all, you're sadly mistaken. Those things will lay your face right open. Shattered teeth, broken facial bones.

The best option is to practice with and carry something which is either semi-acceptable-- strong mace, a palmstick, even an asp-- or is not conventionally a weapon at all, like a strong pointed metal pen or something like that.

In other words, you could plausibly say 'All I had was this piece of metal I found in a parking lot."

In many states even just POSSESSING brass knuckles on your person is a felony, and in those same states felony carry means a mandatory minimum. Weapons law regarding concealed weapons of this sort seem to be trending towards getting more strict, and they're pretty strict already.

A knife on the other hand is a far better weapon and carry of folders with 4" blade length (check local laws) is perfectly legal, even semi-concealed, that is, with the clip visible. In this respect, knives are a rather bizarre loophole of sorts in the US legal system, at least up until you pull the thing out whereupon all bets are off.

Palm sticks are even less of an issue legally and they are extremely unpleasant if you know what to do with one. If you don't, you might be better off with a turkey baster for all the good it would do you.

But that's not my problem.

Lastly, if you use a weapon on someone in this society, you had better have a god DAMN good reason. If a security guard trying to stop you from stealing from a store, or even if you are a dealer trying to stop someone else from robbing you and you hospitalize him, the law will have no mercy on you if you use a weapon. Anyone who tells you different lives in fantasy land.

Best block: no be there.

Lastly, standard disclaimer applies: I am not a lawyer and if you take legal advice from anyone on an anarchy forum you really are dumber than a box of dildos...

[FAZEone]

I was never thinking of using spiked knuckle dusters or even making them as an ornament. That shit is just too much. I'd say metal spiked dusters are more dangerous than a knife, seeing as dusters would predominantly be used to hit the head and stomach areas.
I dont see anyone stabbing or even slashing people in the face, maybe in the neck in extreme cirumstances...

Well instead of using brass knuckles and the like, maybe something legal that supports your fist and maybe adds power to your punches?

[iceniner]

http://www.alphainnovationsselfdefense.com/images/products/m/stinger1.jpg

That's called a stinger. Don't be fooled by the seemingly innocuous appearance, they hit HARD and from what I understand they will pop a rib like it's not even there.

Also, they're 100% legal.

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11326914/Impact_Kerambit_Self_Defense_Travel_Wrench.jpg

There's another one that looks even more stupid. It's called a "travel wrench" but what it really is, is an "impact kerambit." You hold the handle in your hand with your index finger through the ring, and you punch in an uppercutting or hooking motion so that you're hitting with the other end of the "L."

Again, it looks dumb, but for some reason the upward leverage with that L is just huge. The ring act to push it back into the palm of the hand.

Also you can hammerfist with a travel wrench and the ring makes it difficult to disarm.

Here's what the real animal looks like:

http://www.c2mi.com.ar/knives/imgs/karambit.jpg

These knives are common in the philippines and indonesia and are typically used in surprise attacks with a slash across the belly or along the femoral artery while passing someone in the street. There are whole knife fighting systems based on the kerambit and it's an idea that was almost completely unknown in the west until rather recently.

Here's a palmstick:

http://www.alphainnovationsselfdefense.com/images/products/m/kubaton2.jpg

These hit hard as HELL. They hit harder than either of the others because of the downward hammerblow that you can get the entire weight of your body behind-- the thing with the hammerfist from the travel wrench is that the impact is spread out along a line as opposed to being concentrated in that one blunt point. The only problem with them is that they can tend to slip around a little in your grip, which is solved by capping your thumb tightly over the top.

The point on that one above is almost too much, to be honest. I have one that's pointed at about a 135 degree angle or so. If I'm working over some guy with a 6" piece of steel, let's just say that he's got severe enough problems that I don't need to rupture his kidneys to let him know he's getting hit.

For women or smaller dudes I would say go with the steeper point, but even still, that's an "ugh." Wouldn't want to get hit with that at all, no sir.

Thief, are you still quite so sure they won't shatter bone? Me, I sure don't want to get hit with one. Grab someone's left hand in your left and start pounding on the back of their hand and their wrist WILL shatter. I'm not talking about just the hand bones either.

I've had busted bones there from sticks and it does NOT feel good. And those were all just accidents...

[FAZEone]

You use a stabbing motion for the palmstick right?

Like stabbing someone with a pen.

[iceniner]

http://www.alphainnovationsselfdefense.com/images/products/s/koppo3.jpg

Those are koppo sticks. They're just palmsticks with a loop of cord to go around your middle two fingers to prevent you from dropping it.

The advantage of those is that you can open your hand and slap down on the bridge of someone's nose or grind it into their face. Or slap it HARD onto the back of their hand and then grip as tight as you can with the idea of creating a bone bruise and putting pressure on the bruise. Or you could pound with the end to break bones in the hand, then slap-and-grip.

You can kinda do the same thing with brass knuckles too, opening your hand and then slapping with the palm support.

But again, these items are all 100 PERCENT LEGAL TO CARRY. And like I said, they're pretty damn brutal.

[FAZEone]

Where would I be able to legally (or not) aquire such weapons?
It would get held back at customs for shipping would it not?

[iceniner]

You use a stabbing motion for the palmstick right?
Yeah. You can also do different types of jointlocks with them but don't bother with any of that, just pound it into places where there is soft tissue like the top of the forearm, into pressure points like down behind the collarbone, or into bony areas like the top of the head, or into a joint like the knee, the point of the shoulder, the funny bone or the back of his elbow with his arm straight if you can get to it.

It's literally funny to me when people scoff at these. Personally they kind of give me an icky feeling, and not in a good way.

Where would I be able to legally (or not) aquire such weapons?

Are you asking where to get a metal stick?

My advice is not to bother with the other two. I kinda know the guys who make both of those items and they are both great guys and very good at what they do but both of those are kinda gimmicky.

Just get a 6" metal rod about 2 CM thick. Certain kinds of tough plastic or even hardwood will work fine too, 6" is too short for a hardwood dowel to really break easily when only a little bit of it is protruding from your fist.

Seems like a while back some people were talking about carrying short pieces of PVC pipe for palmsticks. Seems like they were talking about sharpening the inside edge of one end with an inward bevel, but that's really not necessary IMO and would inflict mainly cosmetic damage which is pointless...

[MrMinister]

In many states even just POSSESSING brass knuckles on your person is a felony, and in those same states felony carry means a mandatory minimum. Weapons law regarding concealed weapons of this sort seem to be trending towards getting more strict, and they're pretty strict already.


This is Florida's laws, Florida is where 10-20-LIFE started. I'd bet the majority of other states are the same or less.

790.0001(13) - does indeed define brass knuckles as a weapon.

790.01 1 - discusses the crime of carrying a concealed (deadly)weapon, a misdemeanor
4 - presents a chance to get out of the charge if it was carried as a means of self defense

790.10 - discusses brandishing or displaying in an angry,threatening or careless manner, also a misdemeanor

I don't feel like looking the rest up but the language here at least makes anything a weapon depending on intent. So that cool keychain karate bullshit you keep showing the moment you use it,it becomes the same charge as using brass knuckles on someone.

I'm not saying if you crush someone's face in with them you wont be in some shit, I'm saying it's not the penalty being found with them that you are claiming. Next you will tell us since you studied martial arts for 18 years (and your 15) your hands are registered deadly weapons with the state. That was always an amusing story when I was in middle school.

I have hairs on my nuts with more experience than you.

[MrMinister]

Grab yerself some sap gloves:
Never used these but they look fucking sweet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted-knuckle_gloves (Sap Gloves)



Well instead of using brass knuckles and the like, maybe something legal that supports your fist and maybe adds power to your punches?

[iceniner]

You have a couple of problems. One of them I would say is probably penis envy. Another is reading comprehension. There are a couple of different things I'm addressing. I'm going to say this a third time and I'm going to make it really simple for you because it's blindingly obvious to anybody that you have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Carry is one thing. Carry is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from using a weapon on somebody. With carry you're far better off carrying a "bullshit karate" palmstick or what-have-you than knuckles. They don't give a fuck if you carry palmsticks. If you carry brass knuckles, you're fucked and it's a felony in most jurisdictions.

Assault one or assault and battery or assault with a deadly weapon or whatever they call it in a given jurisdiction-- that is, actually attacking someone with a weapon-- is something totally different and no matter what you hit someone with you'd better have a damn good explanation.

In other words, in most jurisdictions that means mandatory minimums. That said, if what you hit the guy with is illegal, they're going to add on charges like there's no tomorrow.

Oh, and I have a pair of sap gloves. They hit like a truck but you can't really carry them if you're smart because once again they're a felony.

But then according to you you're a two-time faller (used to be a baller) who doesn't care about such petty concerns as felonies. If you wanna go running around carrying a busted-off trench knife go right ahead, I'm not stopping you. What I'm saying is just for the smart people.

Hope that helps.

Next you will tell us since you studied martial arts for 18 years (and your 15)
No, I'm almost 40 and I studied them since 1988.

[FAZEone]

Sap gloves are illegal to carry here. The weather is never right for you to wear them as normal gloves either... :sad:

[iceniner]

Yes, illegal on two counts: as concealed weapons and as saps. In a lot of areas they are against the rules for even cops to carry.

MrMinister doesn't know what he's talking about, certainly not on this subject, if he'd casually toss out the idea of blackjack gloves as a legal carry option, because in many areas they're two felonies just for the carry.

It just annoys me when people spread misinformation and claim up and down that it's fact.

[FAZEone]

SWIM found an extendable police baton somewhere before, they could break your knee cap from what I've seen/heard. These are also illegal, however.

[iceniner]

Depends on the jurisdiction, they are legal carry in a lot of places for some strange reason. Under others they would fall under the "Club/Billy" statutes which treat them as illegal...

California in particular is buck nutty about clubs.

[REL0AD]

Wouldnt it be super easy to solder spikes to knuckle dusters? Or wear alot of rings with sharp ends or hard rocks and fuck someones nose with that?

Keeper ring...

[Tarnak]

The only reason I would ever get knuckles is if they had "FAIL" or "GAY" engraved in them. That would be a humiliating face wound to wake up to.

[Micro]

The only reason I would ever get knuckles is if they had "FAIL" or "GAY" engraved in them. That would be a humiliating face wound to wake up to.

The text would have to be engraved as a mirror image.

[FAZEone]

If they were engraved it wouldn't do anything.

[.VX]

The text would have to be engraved as a mirror image.

Not if it was for them to see when they look in the mirror in the morning.

[blastedforums]

A very simple solution...
Will take practice however...
Cast them from carbon fiber or Kevlar fiber or a mix of the two.
You could even use a looser fitting pair of gloves as a mold.
The strength will amaze you if properly done with 5-10 layers.
Personally I would make them cover the top knuckles and back of the palm so they can be used as a back slap. You could also put metal into the back plate.

I have even played with the idea of making a set of gauntlets with blades anchored into them this way.

[Micro]

Why kevlar? Even normal ABS or HDPE would protect ones fingers quite well and polycarbonate would be the real deal.

[blastedforums]

Why kevlar? Even normal ABS or HDPE would protect ones fingers quite well and polycarbonate would be the real deal.

because it is easy to get and easy to work with. It also does not bend or give way much once properly molded.
Polycarbonate, ABS and HDPE all require specialty tooling to make and form, Kevlar and Carbon fiber do not.
If the person has a vacuum heated forming, or an extruding machine it is a whole other story. You could make the molds for the plastics.

[Micro]

I would not call a file or a normal electrical drill "specialty tooling".
If you are making one offs then sawing, filing & drilling a prototype from a flat sheet stock is ok and rather easy.
Hell, you can even engrave your creation with a dremel while at it.

[Tricho]

Brass Knuckles would be great if you knew for sure you were gonna get into a fight and if you are a skilled fighter with Brass Knuckles you could end potential problems in 1-3 punches very easily. Though they aren't a tool to carry 24/7 cause cops are prone to make up bullshit and often illegal ways to search you regardless. Like others have said legal self defense items so to speak are much better like Bear Mace which you can buy in small key chains or to big canisters of it. If its designed to stop a bear its going to hurt a human very much. Brass Knuckles would be good on occasion like its three in the morning and some guys are acting weird. You slip them on real fast and pummel them if they try anything "Funny" so to speak.

[Tarnak]

Tricho, I saw a video of a cop spraying a guy on PCP with bear mace and it not really affecting him at all. He got sprayed a LOT.


link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2A7IsQ83bY


I'd take a multitool, because then you have an excuse for having it.

[torcher]

I'd take a multitool, because then you have an excuse for having it.

excuse for having what?

[Tarnak]

excuse for having what?

The multitool. Or any other tool for that matter.

Effective weapons but you won't get in trouble like you will for knuckle dusters.

[Tricho]

A real man says here is a knife and here is my knife. Lets tie our hands together and fight to the death. :wavey:

[Tarnak]

I like that