Journy to the center of the EARTH!

[DJ Poppinfresh]

A head scratchier for you.

If one was to dig a 3 meter wide cylindrical hole perfectly through the center of the earth, pole to pole, What would happen if you jumped in?

Many people believe that you would stop at the center, and be suspended in mid air. But this is flawed. Because, gravity is created from mass. When you fall into this hole, there's nothing pulling you to the center. It still seems likely that there will be downwards pull, from the walls of the hole, but what happens in the center? Do you fall to a side? This seems unlikely, seeing as gravity would be equal in all directions. But gravity would not be strong enough to suspend a human in mid air. Evidence of this is our ability to jump.

Discuss.

[torcher]

you would burn to death.

[odin_dax]

You'd die from our molten nickel core... if magma didn't flow out and kill you first.

I can't really say I'm interested in theoretical science that can't possible happen.

[.VX]

You'd build up enough momentum to come out the other side. Or maybe when the Earth's gravitational pull was compromised, you'd be affected solely by the next strongest gravitational force; the moon.

Not sure if there's any grounds to that though.

[DJ Poppinfresh]

Okay, new rule - This is theoretical. No core.

Theories, not commonsense.

[odin_dax]

Okay, new rule - This is theoretical. No core.

Theories, not commonsense.

What's the point of discussing science if you're going to ignore it?

[DJ Poppinfresh]

What's the point of discussing science if you're going to ignore it?

What's the point in discussing a topic when it get's shot down by a technicality?

I wasn't planning on going to the center of the Earth, it was a question regarding the nature of gravity, NOT if I would be able to live down there or not.

[odin_dax]

What's the point in discussing a topic when it get's shot down by a technicality?

I wasn't planning on going to the center of the Earth, it was a question regarding the nature of gravity, NOT if I would be able to live down there or not.

I'm just saying that since there is absolutely no way of putting a hole through the earth and finding a hollow center, it is pointless to discuss that were the case.

You could've framed the question differently by not using a planet. I think commonsense can be used. If gravity is pulling you to the center from atop a spherical plane, what do you think would happen when you reached the center?

Your whole question and premise is, in a word, stupid. Sorry. If you fall in a hole there's nothing pulling you? Firstly, there is mass in the center of the earth! So your whole question doesn't make sense using the earth and then removing the mass in the middle.

Last point, what?! Evidence of this is our ability to jump? Gravity doesn't suspend anyone in mid air when we jump! It's not supposed to! How can you apply jump from gravity to support being in the middle of gravity?

You discuss. The whole point of this forum, if you READ THE SUB-FORUM RULES, is to USE A BASIS OF FACT, EVEN IN THEORY! :smashfrea

[crazy white guy]

Apart from the core you still have deadly gasses, oil, rocks Falling of the wall's sides and killing you, heavy metals being inhaled, ect.

If its a sphere with a hole in it, the center of gravity will still be at the center of the hole.

So Assuming you have a perfectly balanced ring of gravity around you, this means you will be not attracted to one side of the tunnel more than the other. Then you would fall out at a distance a few meters less than the radius at which you left. This also assumes the diameter of the earth is constant, which it is not. Jumping into the hole on a mountain and exiting in a valley would allow for the change of jumping through and surviving.

First, the gravity of the earth is not symmetrical along an infinite plane. Its kind of a squished oval shape. Assuming you got perfectly in line with the poles of gravity and magnetism (impossible) you will have to take into account the fact that some places in the earth will have great masses of iron which will have the slightest pull of their own independent from the overall pull. even if this only pulls you an inch or so, you would scrape your head/feet of the tunnel wall and die.

There's a theory that this trip will take 36minutes no matter how you decide to do it. As long as its a straight tunnel that goes through the earth, the trip will take 36 minutes.

[odin_dax]

There's a theory that this trip will take 36minutes no matter how you decide to do it. As long as its a straight tunnel that goes through the earth, the trip will take 36 minutes.

Yeah, but at what speed or vehicle? Anything can be traveled in 36 minutes at a certain speed, but getting to just the core in a car or plane, absolutely no way.

[crazy white guy]

Yeah, but at what speed or vehicle? Anything can be traveled in 36 minutes at a certain speed, but getting to just the core in a car or plane, absolutely no way.

Its terminal velocity while falling. No power involved.

[DJ Poppinfresh]

If you fall in a hole there's nothing pulling you?
Okay, I didn't think this would need explaining, but just for you.

Gravity is not a central hub in the middle of the earth. gravity comes from the WHOLE Earth, so digging a hole in the middle would make little difference. You would still be pulled down, from the SIDES of the hole.

You could've framed the question differently by not using a planet.
Did I REALLY have to? Is everyone incapable of seeing this in theory? That's like asking what the fastest attainable speed is in a vacuum, and then you saying that you would suffocate in a vacuum, making it impossible. It's the theory of if a certain force is strong enough to influence our generalistic commonsense physics.

Last point, what?! Evidence of this is our ability to jump? Gravity doesn't suspend anyone in mid air when we jump! It's not supposed to! How can you apply jump from gravity to support being in the middle of gravity?
I used the jumping example to show that gravity is weak. If gravity is so weak that we can easily break free from it momentarily like that, how can it be expected to support a fully grown 95kg human?



Can we discuss the topic properly now? Or are we going to continue bickering on like kids?

[odin_dax]

Okay, I didn't think this would need explaining, but just for you.

Gravity is not a central hub in the middle of the earth. gravity comes from the WHOLE Earth, so digging a hole in the middle would make little difference. You would still be pulled down, from the SIDES of the hole.



Okay, so I dig a hole 6 feet and there's no gravity anymore. Got it. :stupid:

Begging the question, what if it's just force from the sides holding you down because the earth is rotating so fast? Seeing as, by your statements, there's no gravity anymore, wouldn't that make sense?




I used the jumping example to show that gravity is weak. If gravity is so weak that we can easily break free from it momentarily like that, how can it be expected to support a fully grown 95kg human?

Because you obviously don't understand physics. When you don't move, what happens? When you introduce a force stronger than gravity, what happens? When you can't keep up the necessary energy to continually resist gravity, what happens? If equal forces of gravity pushing you all to the same point, what happens?



Can we discuss the topic properly now? Or are we going to continue bickering on like kids?

You're bickering, I'm discussing.

Please provide us with links to support your theories or I'm locking this thread in violation of the sub-forum rules.

[DJ Poppinfresh]

Okay, you've lost me. A second ago you were arguing that you wouldn't "fall" into the hole...

I never said there was no gravity. I just said that gravity is not originating at the center of the earth anymore, seeing as the mass has been removed. There's still gravity.


Onto the second point - Your argument makes no sense. How are you disproving me? If anything you're supporting my idea. Do YOU think that the earths gravity, if you are surrounded by it, is enough to suspend a person in mid air?

To answer my own question, no, you do NOT think it is strong enough.



Also, I have no references. This is a question I baked up myself, and thought I could get an intelligent answer to. Is not that what Rorta is about? What's the point on discussing something we all know the answer to? But rather a thread like this, where the answer is unknown and people can put forth their own theories, seems to be more interesting. To lock this thread would be to lock the freedom of expression that Rorta stands for.

And who cares if a lot of those theories are wrong. I'm not planning on digging a hole through the earth any time soon. Are you?

[odin_dax]

Okay, you've lost me. A second ago you were arguing that you wouldn't "fall" into the hole...

I never said there was no gravity. I just said that gravity is not originating at the center of the earth anymore, seeing as the mass has been removed. There's still gravity.


Onto the second point - Your argument makes no sense. How are you disproving me? If anything you're supporting my idea. Do YOU think that the earths gravity, if you are surrounded by it, is enough to suspend a person in mid air?

To answer my own question, no, you do NOT think it is strong enough.



Also, I have no references. This is a question I baked up myself, and thought I could get an intelligent answer to. Is not that what Rorta is about? What's the point on discussing something we all know the answer to? But rather a thread like this, where the answer is unknown and people can put forth their own theories, seems to be more interesting. To lock this thread would be to lock the freedom of expression that Rorta stands for.

And who cares if a lot of those theories are wrong. I'm not planning on digging a hole through the earth any time soon. Are you?

Because science can be studied, observed and support or disprove claims. There's is nothing wrong with science threads being based on theories, but are they sound? The point of a science forum is to base something on fact or logic. I'm not talking about your subject, but all. If this section of the forum is allowed to just spout random tidbits that are absolutely baseless or false, then what is the point of having a discussion in science? Isn't that contradictory of the concept of science? Theories and speculation are great, but everything about nature has a basis. We know a lot about gravity, force, inertia - that answers your question. We know a lot about genetics, natural selection, the weather, disease, geology, astronomy, but of course we don't know everything and that leaves room for discussion. Discussion like, "I think there's another dimension if you go through a black hole" has no basis here, so put that in philosophical. I could go on, but I don't think I need to.

Understand?

Secondly, no, I'm not disproving or supporting you. I haven't made any claims directly related to your question. I spoke on the nature of gravity, and you obviously didn't understand when I said, "Because you obviously don't understand physics. When you don't move, what happens? When you introduce a force stronger than gravity, what happens? When you can't keep up the necessary energy to continually resist gravity, what happens? If equal forces of gravity pushing you all to the same point, what happens?" Yes, if you were in the center of a sphere and the forces of gravity from every angle all pull you to the same central point, you will be suspended in mid-air; otherwise, you'll never get to the center without using outside energy. You can jump because you're enacting enough force to break gravity's resistance, but that burst of energy is only temporary. You don't have enough thrust to leave the atmosphere or have any object to thrust against in mid-air. It's not that you can't be supported by gravity because you can jump, that's an ignorant and a misinterpreted observation on your part. Cars don't fly away, birds have to rest, the astronauts didn't fly away on the moon.

And my earlier point, that if you understood the basics of gravity by reading, then half your question would be answered. And this goes back to Dizzie's first comment about spoon-feeding. Why do so many people on Rorta ask so many questions that can be answered in five minutes using Google? (Not saying you, just taking the time to rant)

[death11284]

There are ways to calculate this, for most gravitational situations Fg = G*m1*m2/d^2 applies but unfortunately this holds only for a point with spherically symmetrical mass density...Gauss's law to calculate this. Gauss's law calculates the surface integral of the gravitational field vector g over the sphere containing a quantity of mass. The only possible way to figure this out is to break Earth into millions, or billions of individual components and find the sum of them using gausse's law.
The only problem with this, is at this point there are many other forces at play. One big issue is the gravitational difference between 1km away on each side of the center of the earth, similar to the black hole theory where the gravitational difference tears you into an infinite amount of pieces...

Simply put this can never, ever, be solved. It would take a team of hundreds of scientists years to figure this one out with even a theoretically sound answer...

[DJ Poppinfresh]

Because science can be studied, observed and support or disprove claims. There's is nothing wrong with science threads being based on theories, but are they sound? The point of a science forum is to base something on fact or logic. I'm not talking about your subject, but all. If this section of the forum is allowed to just spout random tidbits that are absolutely baseless or false, then what is the point of having a discussion in science? Isn't that contradictory of the concept of science? Theories and speculation are great, but everything about nature has a basis. We know a lot about gravity, force, inertia - that answers your question. We know a lot about genetics, natural selection, the weather, disease, geology, astronomy, but of course we don't know everything and that leaves room for discussion. Discussion like, "I think there's another dimension if you go through a black hole" has no basis here, so put that in philosophical. I could go on, but I don't think I need to.

Understand?

Secondly, no, I'm not disproving or supporting you. I haven't made any claims directly related to your question. I spoke on the nature of gravity, and you obviously didn't understand when I said, "Because you obviously don't understand physics. When you don't move, what happens? When you introduce a force stronger than gravity, what happens? When you can't keep up the necessary energy to continually resist gravity, what happens? If equal forces of gravity pushing you all to the same point, what happens?" Yes, if you were in the center of a sphere and the forces of gravity from every angle all pull you to the same central point, you will be suspended in mid-air; otherwise, you'll never get to the center without using outside energy. You can jump because you're enacting enough force to break gravity's resistance, but that burst of energy is only temporary. You don't have enough thrust to leave the atmosphere or have any object to thrust against in mid-air. It's not that you can't be supported by gravity because you can jump, that's an ignorant and a misinterpreted observation on your part. Cars don't fly away, birds have to rest, the astronauts didn't fly away on the moon.

And my earlier point, that if you understood the basics of gravity by reading, then half your question would be answered. And this goes back to Dizzie's first comment about spoon-feeding. Why do so many people on Rorta ask so many questions that can be answered in five minutes using Google? (Not saying you, just taking the time to rant)

I understand what you're saying, but as you said, it doesn't directly relate to this thread.

My "Theory" (Although more of question) was based off my knowledge of gravity, which is not complete, for if it was, I wouldn't need to put this question forward. The question is not based off anything false.

It may seem pointless speculating, but if humans just left questions unanswered if they didn't need to be answered, where would we be? Who cares if the universe is expanding? What relation does that have to do with our everyday life?


"Yes, if you were in the center of a sphere and the forces of gravity from every angle all pull you to the same central point, you will be suspended in mid-air" - This is not mathematically sound. What happens if you alter the amount of gravitational pull? A paradox is created, and as Death stated, it will be years before we figure it out.

My knowledge is based on books and scientific essays, and Google offers no help on this subject.

[REL0AD]

You should both give up. You're getting nowhere with this...:no:

[crazy white guy]

So in a perfect world where you don't get shredded on the side of the tunnel, are baked by the 2000C core, or are killed by heavy metal vapors or are killed by kids throwing 10yen coins in the other side or suffocate from the lack of oxygen and relative pressure, Then you would probably do this:

Fall and gain speed or reach terminal velocity depending on how you oriented yourself. Then you would reach an apex and start falling again. You would fall and rise to a quarter of the height before. Newton has a calculation for this. Its something like subtracting the square root of the height from the overall height.

You would go back and forth for a few hours before finding yourself floating in the middle, probably pulled to one side more than the other.

[Mr.A]

Why in God's name hasn't this thread been locked yet? its pointless, its turned into an arguing match on a stupid weak foundation...pointless. Odin was right the first time.

This is a post to call for help...please lock this thread, your polluting Rorta.:dance:

[Micro]

Why in God's name hasn't this thread been locked yet? its pointless, its turned into an arguing match on a stupid weak foundation...pointless. Odin was right the first time.

This is a post to call for help...please lock this thread, your polluting Rorta.:dance:

Seconded, lock plz.

[thief]

Maybe you would just get crushed by the eminence gravaity or pulled apart in all directions. or you would just fall through to the other side... once through, start falling back the way you came. OR... just lock the tread. :wavey:

[Th0r]

Three users have called for the the thread to be locked. And personally I don't think we've acheived anything in this thread.

However rather than posting in the thread requesting it to be locked perhaps a PM to Odin, DD or myself might be a better option.

Simply put this can never, ever, be solved. It would take a team of hundreds of scientists years to figure this one out with even a theoretically sound answer...

To sum it up, this.