Justification of taking another's life.

[Antagonist]

I find it extremely odd, and unsettling that many people will automatically say "killing people is bad!" but of course you say "what about in times of war" and they somehow think that is different. In my opinion, thats fucking worse! Thats killing random strangers and usually not for a good reason. "Defending your country" is a lame excuse most of the times. How many wars have been fought on american soil? Kind of ironic that the only one I know of, is the civil war (oxymoron). How can people seriously claim it is defending their country, when it is on another countries turf? And a lot of times, there seems to be a hidden agenda behind the war. Another thing that bugs me, is the assholes who come back feeling so badass because they get to say they killed someone, and enjoyed it. Great, now we have to deal with them in our society.

I think it is okay to take another persons life if they are clearly after your life. Preferably if you are engaged in a physical altercation with them, not just an empty death threat. Unfortunately a lot of dumbasses like to make empty death threats, "I'm about to fucking kill them! I swear! Oh, you think I won't?! I so would!"

I also think, its justifiable to take a persons life if they have shown disregard for the lives of others in the passed. For example, killers who kill without a cause. There are dangerous people out there, it may be ironic to sink to their level, but if you can save many lives by taking 1 life, that makes sense to me.

And to go back to the war thing, yeah, if your country gets invaded, war is declared, and your well-being is at risk, then that is understandable.

Your thoughts?

[NINEBREAKER]

kill 1 bad person and save the lives of many people in the long run. thats when i say its justified. that and if the person has done something really horible and no good could have come from it. the best way i can explain that last bit is comparing what happened in the movie the watchmen. the really smart guy ended the cold war by framing his superhero freind makeing the us and solviet union join forces to fight dr manhatan. watch the movie if you dont get what i mean.

[Stone]

The comic is better. I won't spoil it, but it's got a much better ending.

[Antagonist]

I only read part of ninebreaker's post, because I don't want the movie spoiled, but I'd agree with that too. Even though some people might not be killers, they can still do very evil things to ruin peoples lives. If someone is a rapist, then I could give a fuck less about their life.

[.VX]

I only think that people should be killed when a) they are trying to kill you and the only plausible way to save yourself is to kill them, or b) they are trying to kill others and the only way to save the others it to kill them, or c) when they want to be euthanised.

Although at the same time I think it's not that big a deal if someone gets killed.

[NINEBREAKER]

I only think that people should be killed when a) they are trying to kill you and the only plausible way to save yourself is to kill them, or b) they are trying to kill others and the only way to save the others it to kill them, or c) when they want to be euthanised.

Although at the same time I think it's not that big a deal if someone gets killed.

pretty much whaty i said but more inteligent

[thief]

Although at the same time I think it's not that big a deal if someone gets killed.

What about a loved one of yours? Change then?

[Antagonist]

In a greater sense, its still not a big deal. I think the point he was making is that people get killed everyday. All people die eventually, anyway.

[thief]

In a greater sense, its still not a big deal. I think the point he was making is that people get killed everyday. All people die eventually, anyway.

I know what your saying but... im not sure it would be so insignificant if a loved one of his were killed. And and therefore it becomes a big deal to the individual. As with everything its all perspective.

[NINEBREAKER]

i think we need to bring back public executions. i also think we should bring back duels and stuff like that. earth is over populated we need to kill some people off preferable the stupid ones who are always eager to fight

[Antagonist]

Soo...its okay to kill people for population control?

[.VX]

What about a loved one of yours? Change then?

Obviously, if a loved one was murdered then I would feel a lot more than if someone who I'd never known to have existed was murdered, but the crime of murder still remains the same.

pretty much whaty i said but more inteligent

kill 1 bad person and save the lives of many people in the long run. thats when i say its justified. that and if the person has done something really horible and no good could have come from it. the best way i can explain that last bit is comparing what happened in the movie the watchmen. the really smart guy ended the cold war by framing his superhero freind makeing the us and solviet union join forces to fight dr manhatan. watch the movie if you dont get what i mean.

I wouldn't kill a guy who planned to shoot a bunch of kids if that's what you mean by saving many in the long run. If someone is planning to kill someone else then I think you should stop it, but there are ways to do that other than killing them.

[Th0r]

You can justify taking the life of another relatively easy. A burglar breaks into my families home. I'm up at 1AM as per usual and here the perp breaking in. From the shadows I silently watch the thief who is armed with a firearm. I decide to act and stab him to death. I've just killed a man but theoretically I could have saved the lives of many other people.

The same could be said for me if I shot and killed the next Cho Seung Hui shooting my classmates. My moral stance in a general sense refers to the past examples. I have killed someone who themselves was doing 'wrong' in order to safeguard the lives of others. In a lesser sense if I'm being attacked and I have a way of ending the attack that also results in ending my opponents life as opposed to my own I will seize that opportunity.

Life is too precious and as we all know far to well, it can be taken away from us in an instant.

[NINEBREAKER]

Soo...its okay to kill people for population control?

in a sense. let the barbaric fools kill each other off is what i'm trying to get at. as well as bringing in harsher punishments. rather than abolish the death penalty make an express lane.

in medevil japan public executions could be done by anyone. samurai usually did it for funor to practice proper strikeing

[Th0r]

in a sense. let the barbaric fools kill each other off is what i'm trying to get at. as well as bringing in harsher punishments. rather than abolish the death penalty make an express lane.


The areas where you've got barbaric fools killing each other off generally speaking aren't the ones needing population control. They're also the same people who consume very little of the Worlds resources. I don't see people killing each other en mass in the UK. China? No. America? No.

The death penalty is a totally different issue altogether. Whilst it's far more economical to obliterate all the murderers and violent criminals in the prison system what kind of punishment is effective escape from imprisonment?

[NINEBREAKER]

The areas where you've got barbaric fools killing each other off generally speaking aren't the ones needing population control. They're also the same people who consume very little of the Worlds resources. I don't see people killing each other en mass in the UK. China? No. America? No.

The death penalty is a totally different issue altogether. Whilst it's far more economical to obliterate all the murderers and violent criminals in the prison system what kind of punishment is effective escape from imprisonment?

i was talking more along the lines of gang bangers and mob members but ok

[Antagonist]

I think its safe to say politicians and bankers are probably okay to kill as well, haha.

[NINEBREAKER]

I think its safe to say politicians and bankers are probably okay to kill as well, haha.

or at least the ones who fuck up...herm herm the traitor from texas

[Th0r]

What's killing a dodgy banker or a corrupt politician going to do that's remotely beneficial for you or anyone else, may I ask? The only thing I see about killing a dodgy banker or a corrupt politician that's beneficial is for them. They get an escape from real punishment. Killing them is completely counter-productive for the entire 'fuck the system' movement.

Corrupt and incapable politicians should be stripped of their powers and fucked over. Make them walk the streets in rags with a sign that reads "I misused your Taxes" or something similar. For bankers the same should be applied instead change the sign to something that reads "I squandered your money". That way they can be humiliated and degraded for the crimes they have committed.

i was talking more along the lines of gang bangers and mob members but ok
Personally I think you've been playing to much GTA. Gang killings aren't every minute occurrences.

[Antagonist]

Umm...serious? Think about how much power they have, that they abuse. I guess I can't really say anything, because I can't prove it... but I really believe that bankers are in some sketchy business. I really think they have paid people to make other people 'disappear', I really think they have taken away many peoples freedom and stolen from them. Unfortunately I can't really prove it, and I can't convince you, but that doesn't necessarily mean its not true.

Think about if you were a banker or politician, all the power you'd have. You could get away with a thing or two, no problem.

And with them out of the way, a lot less evil would be done. Seriously, think about how many lives are lost along the way of powerful mens pursuit for more power. Even if it isn't directly, they still have a large impact. I mean, its never the man at the top of the ladder doing the killing, he just pays to have it done.

[Persian]

Killing doesn't need justification...there's nothing that actually makes it 'wrong' other than our own instinct (i think it's instinct anyway). The only things that make killing wrong are religion that say it is an 'unholy act', but assuming you're not religious, killing shouldn't be wrong to you.

But obviously you wouldn't kill if you had nothing to gain from it, or if you were to make a loss from it. Which is the reason most people do not kill...
If you were to kill freely, you would be killed off or arrested very quickly, so there it isn't a good idea to go around killing people. But it's not actually wrong, and doesn't need to be justified.

Note: I say it isn't wrong because no one i've met has been able to prove otherwise. But i'm willing to accept it's wrong if someone can provide a good reason =).

[Twist]

It's wrong because it takes away a natural freedom for which each human being was entiteled to. It's wrong because it causes pain and suffering in which otherwise could be avoided. It's wrong because it does no greater good whatsoever. It's wrong because it leaves old mothers and fathers and family members in tears. It's wrong because it poisins the attitude of society. It's wrong because it would make the world less of a place in which we would want to be living in. Finally it's wrong because it's not your life to take. Need I say more?

[Th0r]

It's wrong because it takes away a natural freedom for which each human being was entiteled to. It's wrong because it causes pain and suffering in which otherwise could be avoided. It's wrong because it does no greater good whatsoever. It's wrong because it leaves old mothers and fathers and family members in tears. It's wrong because it poisins the attitude of society. It's wrong because it would make the world less of a place in which we would want to be living in. Finally it's wrong because it's not your life to take. Need I say more?

I think they're all good reasons not to take someone's life, however if that someone has taken away the natural freedom of another human and has caused pain, suffering and anguish to others can, or rather should their lives be taken away too?

[.VX]

I think they're all good reasons not to take someone's life, however if that someone has taken away the natural freedom of another human and has caused pain, suffering and anguish to others can, or rather should their lives be taken away too?

No, then you're just as bad as them. What purpose could murdering a murderer serve?

[Th0r]

No, then you're just as bad as them. What purpose could murdering a murderer serve?

You make it sound as if I'm talking about Vigilantism, instead I'm talking about Capital punishment, which I don't agree with.

[.VX]

Capital punishment is retarded, and cannot be rationally justified.

[Day_N_Night]

Just to comment on the original theme of the thread.....

I don't think you need to justify taking another's life to anyone but yourself.

Ultimately it is your choice wether or not to take someones life.You're the only person you have to convince.

Ofcourse you'll take into account the consequence of taking another's life (such as criminal charges) but the point still stands: the only person you have to justify taking anothers life to, is yourself.

The OP presupposes that you are accountable to society, which if you do the job right wont be an issue .....

[Micro]

Just to comment on the original theme of the thread.....

I don't think you need to justify taking another's life to anyone but yourself.

Ultimately it is your choice wether or not to take someones life.You're the only person you have to convince.


As for the justification, if someone endangers the my or my loved ones life, it is a good enough reason.

Fuck em, I'll rather live, if it requires their death(s) then so be it.

[Twist]

I agree with the greater good perspective of this argument, but my point stands when this thread moved in to killing random people, and this is still wrong.

[Abrazaderas]

i would kill someone if the benefits outweighed the consequences in the given situation. i don't need to justify or explain it for anyone, not even myself.

[zero existence]

i would kill someone if the benefits outweighed the consequences in the given situation. i don't need to justify or explain it for anyone, not even myself.

What's stopped you from killing someone already (if you haven't)? And are we talking benefits for you? If so, there're so many circumstances where the benefits can outweigh the consequences from a personal gain worldview. (collecting insurance money on someone; or someone continually makes you enraged, and in your mind, the benefit of having them dead is greater than possible consequences). [I'm not demanding answers, just curious to see where you're coming from]

It may sound blindly desensitizing to say this. But are we really obligated to defend people or put people to death who hurt people? And why? If we evolved from monkeys, why not let serial killers walk free. We're just a spec in a cold dark universe.

I guess our natural instincts serve us best. Survival of the fittest. We, using logic and rationalizations, can justify keeping ourselves and peers of a civilization alive, by killing off those who work to defeat that goal. It not only makes sense, it logically works. Whether you're a caveman defending your tribe or a greek logic thinktank. But rationalizing even more, we can ask, if we have to means to detain them without killing them, then should we do that instead? Should we artificially (jail) keep those alive who want us dead and have no place in our society? And do so at our expense? Is it just so we can sleep better at night knowing we did the "right" thing by not taking a life? (Or can we ship just them off somewhere?) (these questions apparently has been the deeply thoughtout by societies for centuries >> Australia (convict isle), roman crusifictions, american jails, etc.)