Capital Punishment.

[savage_beauty]

What's your opinion on capital punishment?

Is it right or wrong? What type of crime or person deserves death?

In England the death penalty is still in place for treason but I don't know if its active for anything else. What about in America or Australia or where ever else Rorta extends to?

I personally think that its only necessary for very extreme cases such as mass murder.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Cap punishment is abolished all up in Aust, im sort of for it. Why should my taxes supply a room and food for a deranged serial killer? It would be cheaper to hang the bastard from a tree.

[7eleven mafia]

i think capital punishment is a good idea, i hate my tax money going towards fucking prisoners who sit there eating, and living off of my hard work, it pisses me off it would be quicker and better to use it but depending on what state you live in it all depends some states but due to bureaucratic bull shit

[torcher]

i'm for the death penalty. murderers, rapists, mass murderers, serial killers, serial rapists..blah fucking blah.

though i share the same sentiment as the poster above me, i know that most death row inmates spend much longer than many regular inmates at the same prisons.
im sorry but your "i hate my tax money going towards fucking prisoners who sit there eating, and living off of my hard work", argument is invalid.(see below.)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4033/timebeforeexec.jpg

[.VX]

I'm against it.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

Torch that is america, i am Australian mate.

Last Capital Punishment here was in 1967 IIRC, someone Ryans.

[savage_beauty]

I do agree with it to a degree. Some prisions are so comfortable. Why should we pay for murders to be confortable.

Then again as my grandma says "an eye for an eye will make the world go blind"

[torcher]

but the eyes we are losing with capital punishment are generally not eyes any of us want to see.

[.VX]

Why should we pay for murders to be confortable.

Why shouldn't they be happy? They're peole too.
Then again as my grandma says "an eye for an eye will make the world go blind"
Odin said that ages ago, I was going to say it in this thread.

Anyway, here's my outline of a better prison system; each prison is a communist society in itself, so the prisoners would produce whatever food and supplies for themselves and what they couldn't produce, i.e. enough meat (yeah, I don't think people should eat meat unless they have to, but that's another argument), would be bought wholesale. The primary function would be to produce as much stuff for themselves that they need, and then they'd make sellable supplies, be sponsored by corporations, sell the inmates bodies to science, whatever they could to make money to trade with in the real world.

[RoundElephant]

Cap punishment is abolished all up in Aust, im sort of for it. Why should my taxes supply a room and food for a deranged serial killer? It would be cheaper to hang the bastard from a tree.

It's more expensive to kill them for several reasons.

-They are in prison for years before they are executed.
and
-They go to court ALL the time to challenge the sentence which costs the state tens of thousands in legal fees. (And if they have a public defense attorney it would cost even more)

Anyway, here's my outline of a better prison system; each prison is a communist society in itself, so the prisoners would produce whatever food and supplies for themselves and what they couldn't produce, i.e. enough meat (yeah, I don't think people should eat meat unless they have to, but that's another argument), would be bought wholesale. The primary function would be to produce as much stuff for themselves that they need, and then they'd make sellable supplies, be sponsored by corporations, sell the inmates bodies to science, whatever they could to make money to trade with in the real world.

That system is much worse then the current one. First of all communism fails because of people being lazy, most criminals are lazy, so why would they work hard? Letting them die of starvation is cruel and unusual. And in a communist society people must get along, prisoners hate the opposite races.

And what if they use the tools you give them to farm to kill each other or the gaurds?

And it is the prisoners right to decide what happens to his body. Most people don't want scientists shoving probes up their ass holes and defiling there bodies.

Hypothetically speaking: If I was a prisoner in this prison system I would sit on my ass eating all day.
Then. I would try to convince all the other prisoners to riot. Rioting would be easy with all the "weapons" we were provided.
We would then calmly leave and brutalize society.

[NINEBREAKER]

hmmm my opinion is that its ok and that many (if not all)executions should be public.

in a book i read (hagakure) it was said that at the age of 5 a young would be samurai would be order to kill a dog and at 13 to 15 execute a criminal. most young samurai enjoyed this.

failure to execute criminals and give them lighter senences ment more would be willing to break the law so examples had to be made. to lighten the punishments showed neglegence and cowardice. now the reason i talked about the kids practicing killing above is that i think the criminal should get to pick wether to kill themselves or have someone do it for them.

personally the idea of seppuku is one way i wouldn't mind dying. anyone who can at least finish 1 cut in seppuku has me respect no matter what they did in life to be condemed to death so long as they are truly sorry for what they done or denies doing the crime until death. (anyone who can deal with that much pain deserves some respect)i beleive that so long as they are not sceientologist.

i hate racists. those who bend and twist good well meaning religous beleif into something for money or evil goals. rapists( in some cases the statetory rapists i letr off,i thin its ok for an 18 year old to fuck a 16 year old) and above all i hate those who prey upon weaklinds lie child/woman beaters and bullies.

but just cuz i hate them dose not mean kill them. i think we should have public ececutions but i also think the terms for the ececution should be fallowed by a few things such as video evidence. their confessions, and wether or not they want comit suicide.

if somone dose a crime then has the choice to kill themself or be killed by someone else if they kill themselves in my opinion they at least are trying to repent just a little bit. or trying to die with dignity.

well this is all my opinion but o well feel free to add negative or positive comentary to it

[.VX]

That system is much worse then the current one. First of all communism fails because of people being lazy, most criminals are lazy, so why would they work hard? Letting them die of starvation is cruel and unusual. And in a communist society people must get along, prisoners hate the opposite races.

So, you think it's better to force them to die than to give them the resources to grow their own food? Or the resources to be productive in some way and barter for food? You say that people have the right to decide whether they want to be used as guinea pigs, but they don't have the right to choose how they want to live? I don't think that (most) prisoners are actually racist to that extreme, but when so many people are forced into conformity and the same class then that's how they react. They use the only major difference between them as a basis for they're own culture. These people wouldn't all be forced to do the same thing, they'd be given more liberties.

And what if they use the tools you give them to farm to kill each other or the gaurds?

Like in today's prisons*, prisoners who were trusted by the people who run the prison to not be violent would be allowed to just use the tools, and if their work wasn't enough to support everybody, then the les trusted ones would be allowed to maintain their produce individually and would recieve and give back the tools to the gards in the same way that dinner trays are given to and taken from prisoners in the isolation cells. If each prisoner who wasn't trusted by guards was given the necessary amount of space for the prison to be supported (on top of the trusted prisoner's produce) then they could have the space in wire-fenced 'cells' with a gate with a slot on it to pass tools through, and to put on and remove hand-cuffs.
*In prisons today the inmates who are trusted to not be violent are sometimes allowed to not wear hand cuffs, use the prison library freely, et cetera ...

And it is the prisoners right to decide what happens to his body. Most people don't want scientists shoving probes up their ass holes and defiling there bodies.

I'm not saying they should be forced into it, but like out of prison, if they wanted extra cash or resources with a minimal amount of effort then they could. Also they could donate blood and sperm if they wanted to. (If they can't already, I'm not sure)
[/QUOTE]
Hypothetically speaking: If I was a prisoner in this prison system I would sit on my ass eating all day.
Then. I would try to convince all the other prisoners to riot. Rioting would be easy with all the "weapons" we were provided.
We would then calmly leave and brutalize society.[/QUOTE]

Like in most of society, if you sat on your arse all day then would wouldn't be able to get anything to eat. As I said before, not every prisoner would just be allowed shovels, pitchforks and whatever they wanted, so the prison wouldn't be full of weapons.

(I've quite possibly forgotten to reply to some of the things you said, and I'm really just making this up as I go along, so please keep finding faults in it so I can hopefully refine this idea.)

EDIT:I forgot to mention this before. Do you people who think they should be killed for economical reasons, also believe that we should execute people who are recieving money from the government (the doll, basically)? Or can you put a monetary value on someone's life?

[savage_beauty]

Anyway, here's my outline of a better prison system; each prison is a communist society in itself, so the prisoners would produce whatever food and supplies for themselves and what they couldn't produce, i.e. enough meat (yeah, I don't think people should eat meat unless they have to, but that's another argument), would be bought wholesale. The primary function would be to produce as much stuff for themselves that they need, and then they'd make sellable supplies, be sponsored by corporations, sell the inmates bodies to science, whatever they could to make money to trade with in the real world.

In theory it?s a brilliant new system. The Prisoners could learn a lot from it but most prisoners are angry, against the system, the guards, themselves ECT. Tools can easily be turned into weapons. There was one case where a guard was killed because he gave a prisoner a broom to clean his cell. The prisoner snapped the broom in half and stabbed the guard in the neck.

I think that mass murderers, serial rapists or paedophiles/serious child abusers ECT should be killed but I think they should have the right to choose how they die. For example most executions now are carried out by lethal injection that causes cardiac death. If a prisoner wants to donate their organs they cannot donate major ones with cardiac death. But hanging or a well-aimed shot from the firing squad would cause brain death. Then if the prisoner was hooked up to a respirator he or she could donate their organs.

If I were a prisoner on death row I would rather die on my own terms instead of an official telling me that I was going to die on this day by this method.

[.VX]

In theory it?s a brilliant new system. The Prisoners could learn a lot from it but most prisoners are angry, against the system, the guards, themselves ECT. Tools can easily be turned into weapons. There was one case where a guard was killed because he gave a prisoner a broom to clean his cell. The prisoner snapped the broom in half and stabbed the guard in the neck.
Tools would be controlled so that whatever was given out had to be back with the guards before they could leave the gardening area, and untrusted prisoners would only be allowed to tend to their own patch so that they could only pose a threat to themselves. Like I said, tools would be recieved and given back through a flap while the prisoner has his/her back to the door like in solitary confinement cells. There probably would be some cases where a prisoner gains the trust of the guards, and then attacks them, but that's going to happen in both systems anyway.

I think that mass murderers, serial rapists or paedophiles/serious child abusers ECT should be killed but I think they should have the right to choose how they die. For example most executions now are carried out by lethal injection that causes cardiac death. If a prisoner wants to donate their organs they cannot donate major ones with cardiac death. But hanging or a well-aimed shot from the firing squad would cause brain death. Then if the prisoner was hooked up to a respirator he or she could donate their organs.

If I were a prisoner on death row I would rather die on my own terms instead of an official telling me that I was going to die on this day by this method.

I don't think that they should be killed, but just removed from people who they are at a risk of harming. Why do you think that they should die?

[savage_beauty]

I don't think that they should be killed, but just removed from people who they are at a risk of harming. Why do you think that they should die?

Their actions have not only harmed or ended their victims lives they have also affected hundreds of others. Because the vast majority of them would not reform in prision. Life in prison would be expensive and in some cases wouldn't fit their crime.

[.VX]

Their actions have not only harmed or ended their victims lives they have also affected hundreds of others. Because the vast majority of them would not reform in prision. Life in prison would be expensive and in some cases wouldn't fit their crime.

I agree that most serial killers, serial rapists and child abusers probably wouldn't reform in prison, but there's no reason why they shouldn't just be removed from society and be allowed to live by themselves how they want to?

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

I agree that most serial killers, serial rapists and child abusers probably wouldn't reform in prison, but there's no reason why they shouldn't just be removed from society and be allowed to live by themselves how they want to?

What as serial killers, serial rapists and child abusers?

[RoundElephant]

Life in prison would be expensive and in some cases wouldn't fit their crime.

Execution would be more expensive.

I think the death penalty is:
a) too expensive
and
b)Not even a harsh punishment. I would much rather die then spend the next 40 years of my life sitting in a cell.

V.X.-Your prison system would not work. You would have to sequester every prisoner that might use the tool as a weapon. And sequestering most of the prison population would be more expensive then it is now. The system you describe is more dangerous and more expensive then the current one in place.

[.VX]

What as serial killers, serial rapists and child abusers?
How they want to within boundaries. I say we should just remove them from people who they might victimise.
Execution would be more expensive.

I think the death penalty is:
a) too expensive
and
b)Not even a harsh punishment. I would much rather die then spend the next 40 years of my life sitting in a cell.

I don't think the death penalty is supposed to be a punishment, I think it's to cut costs and to "ensure that they never hurt anyone else again".

V.X.-Your prison system would not work. You would have to sequester every prisoner that might use the tool as a weapon. And sequestering most of the prison population would be more expensive then it is now. The system you describe is more dangerous and more expensive then the current one in place.

The only prisoners who would have a chance to attack someone else would be the ones who had consistently been "good", and they'd only be a threat to a few other prisoners before the guards could stop them.

Why is it more dangerous and more expensive?

[RoundElephant]

I don't think the death penalty is supposed to be a punishment, I think it's to cut costs and to "ensure that they never hurt anyone else again".


How many times do I have to say this:

The death penalty is more expensive than incarcerating someone for life!

[.VX]

Aye, that it is!

(I just read up on it)

[Vein]

Firstly, i don't think any non-violent crimes should put one in prison. Only community service and similar things.

Secondly, I don't think we spend a high enough percentage of the money for the prison system on rehabilitation and preventive measures.

Criminal psychology research should be as much as a concern than putting the criminal away. Also, eye for an eye is a ridiculous idea.

[Nox (ADVANCED)]

How they want to within boundaries. I say we should just remove them from people who they might victimise.


So fence them in with each other and legally duke it out?

[torcher]

Aye, that it is!

(I just read up on it)

statistics please.

the county jail i was in cost $145 to house us per day to the taxpayers.
that equals out to almost $53000 per year.

the average life sentence in the US is 25 years. that comes out to $1,323,125.

how much does it cost to execute?

[.VX]

Firstly, i don't think any non-violent crimes should put one in prison. Only community service and similar things.

Secondly, I don't think we spend a high enough percentage of the money for the prison system on rehabilitation and preventive measures.

Criminal psychology research should be as much as a concern than putting the criminal away. Also, eye for an eye is a ridiculous idea.
Agreed.
So fence them in with each other and legally duke it out?
No.
statistics please.

the county jail i was in cost $145 to house us per day to the taxpayers.
that equals out to almost $53000 per year.

the average life sentence in the US is 25 years. that comes out to $1,323,125.

how much does it cost to execute?

hxxp://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[savage_beauty]

Why does it cost that much to kill a prisoner? Most executions are caused by lethal injection... so why does it cost that much to inject a prisoner.

Wow. On average the NHS spends $46,557 million on the 7 childhood vaccinations measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) for example per year.

Where as Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution.

Of Course the figures I got on vaccinations was last updated in 2002. So the number would of raised by quite a lot, but still, $37 Million dollars on one execution... that money could of been better spent.

[torcher]

they aren't telling the whole story.
there is no fucking way the lethal injection chemicals, the facility, the disposal of the body, etc cost 37 million dollars

the only way i can see it costing that much, is legal fees for the state and inmate, housing, food, and the brompton cocktail.

[RoundElephant]

Why does it cost that much to kill a prisoner? Most executions are caused by lethal injection... so why does it cost that much to inject a prisoner.

Wow. On average the NHS spends $46,557 million on the 7 childhood vaccinations measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) for example per year.

Where as Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution.

Of Course the figures I got on vaccinations was last updated in 2002. So the number would of raised by quite a lot, but still, $37 Million dollars on one execution... that money could of been better spent.

legal fees are probably the most expansive thing. The death row inmate will try to appeal to te court multiple times to try to get a lighter sentence. And his lawyer will try to drag it out as long as possible.

[.VX]

the only way i can see it costing that much, is legal fees for the state and inmate, housing, food, and the brompton cocktail.

That's it, the actual injection/electrocution itself doesn't cost that much.

[Mr.A]

I'm against it. We are creatures of habit, killing people promotes more killing IMO. I prefer the idea of free labor. All great civilizations in the past had slaves to do all their "great" building. Why not make our prisoners slaves for their sentences?

[RoundElephant]

I'm against it. We are creatures of habit, killing people promotes more killing IMO. I prefer the idea of free labor. All great civilizations in the past had slaves to do all their "great" building. Why not make our prisoners slaves for their sentences?

Because it's cruel and unusual punishment. And people will be pissed if they see blacks being forced into slavery again.

[Mr.A]

Because it's cruel and unusual punishment. And people will be pissed if they see blacks being forced into slavery again.

BS! Not trying to start a rage war. You cannot play both sides of the fence, prisoners are either right or right-less. Thats why they are prisoners no? They defied the rights of others. People will not be pissed about the whole blacks being slaves because the blacks will be slaving right along with the whites. If anybody complains with "prisoners are human beings they deserve rights too!" Stfuda, they knew the consequences of their actions before they committed them, so shall they reap their reward. "Now get back to work!" lol

If its a racial thing your talking about with people being pissed about blacks being slaves then simply ask the ones who complain, "would you rather the rapist who happen to hit your dog while running from the police sit in a vacation home 'thinking' about what 'wrong' he/she had done or would you rather said criminal go do something productive?"

[REL0AD]

Why not make our prisoners slaves for their sentences?

Go fuck yourself, I'd rather get the chair than do work for the state whom have imprisoned me.

[RoundElephant]

Go fuck yourself, I'd rather get the chair than do work for the state whom have imprisoned me.

As most prisoners would. That is why it is a stupid idea.

[DangerousLuck]

I wish I had a good answer for this. It's expensive to kill people with the methods "civilized society" deems appropriate and the red tape that surrounds it keeps us paying for prisoners to live years and years before their scheduled termination.

If there wasn't a death penalty, we'd eliminate a lot of superfluous spending and the overcrowding of prisons wouldn't be drastically effected because of the relatively small amount of inmates on "Death Row." And it's not like it's much of a deterrent. I believe that people on Death Row generally committed their offense in passion or in the case of pre-meditation, they valued the act which they committed over the value of their life. Saying, "The state may kill you because of this," is unlikely to be all that effective.

Not that I'm in favor for it, but if a suspect found guilty of a capital offense was simply shot in the head following the gavel bang (our tax dollars paying for one bullet per prisoner), I think that capital offense rates would go down and the citizenship wouldn't bitch about the price to kill a prisoner. This speaks nothing to the moral issues at hand, though. :poke:

[Mr.A]

Go fuck yourself, I'd rather get the chair than do work for the state whom have imprisoned me.

My point exactly:slaphappy

I wouldn't want you in a chair mate, I would only want you to be happy meaning I wouldn't want you imprisoned at all, as with anyone else.

DangerousLuck: hahaha, ya morals seem to make everything fickle. Just like your sig says :sgrin:

[need2knowbases]

Not that I'm in favor for it, but if a suspect found guilty of a capital offense was simply shot in the head following the gavel bang (our tax dollars paying for one bullet per prisoner), I think that capital offense rates would go down and the citizenship wouldn't bitch about the price to kill a prisoner. This speaks nothing to the moral issues at hand, though. :poke:

I don't know much about, well, anything, but I would think that this would be a feasible plan unless there are people profiting from the methods used now. Considering the money being spent, it has to go somewhere.

[Day_N_Night]

I
Not that I'm in favor for it, but if a suspect found guilty of a capital offense was simply shot in the head following the gavel bang (our tax dollars paying for one bullet per prisoner), I think that capital offense rates would go down and the citizenship wouldn't bitch about the price to kill a prisoner. This speaks nothing to the moral issues at hand, though. :poke:

I'm pretty sure they do something similar in Saudi Arabia except for smaller crimes they chop off your hands or something to that effect. And apparently they have one of the worlds lowest crime rates...

[Tricho]

Personally I think all life without parole inmates and death penalty inmates should be swiftly killed. As these people are psychopathic and are going to sit around in a cell wasting valuable tax payer money that could easily go to other prison inmates to actually rehabilitate the people who would actually benefit from it. At the local gun shop it cost about 10 bucks for a box of 25 shotgun shells that is twenty five dead prison life without parole inmates or death penalty inmates. Fucking Richard Ramirez aka the Nightstalker has been on death row since 1989. I'm failing to see why in the fuck its twenty years later and he is still sitting on death row.


With more than likely a tv and a radio in his cell and three hots, a cot and little top ramen soups to eat when he might get hungry when he is locked in his cell. Its extremely annoying that they let these people live. Though my opinion on the justice system is that it needs major revamping and major laws need to be passed to save money and promote better police work. It should be a law to prohibit police agencies from not working with each other and not sharing information; cause many of them want the glory to sit around and say oh it was us that caught the bad gay not those assholes in the other county. It would ultimately make police more effective and on top of that with the swifter executions of all LWOP inmates and DP inmates. A lot more money would be better put into the community or the prisons.

[darkangel]

don't necropost
but other than that yes a bullet to the brain would be effective ,
but what we really need is to bring back the geitean (sp)
all you have to do the is take a hose and spray the blood off.

[Tricho]

don't necropost
but other than that yes a bullet to the brain would be effective ,
but what we really need is to bring back the geitean (sp)
all you have to do the is take a hose and spray the blood off.
I didn't even realize that this thread ended in may until you brought that up.

[darkangel]

just be sure that you look ,you've been doing a lot of it

[torcher]

reviving threads is okay as long as it keeps on topic and makes the thread better etc.

[Th0r]

just be sure that you look ,you've been doing a lot of it

It annoys me when someone Pseudo-Mods. Especially when they've committed plenty a rule violation in their time. And Tricho hasn't committed a violation of the rules.

Necromancy is only an offence when it's a one liner. As opposed to several well thought out and well argued statements.

XxX

Oh... And Tricho, I agree with your thoughts.

Bullets to the brain... Fuck that shit.

Fill a load of them in a room (Very Nazi-Esque, I know.) and fill the room with Chlorine gas. After ten slow, painful minutes they'll all be dead.

I can envision a dictatorship where prisoners that had committed smaller offences such as rape and armed robbery were forced to deal with the bodies of the deceased prisoners as a reminder of what will happen if they re-offend at a later date.

That's not what I actually believe in, but I have been researching the more hard-line justice systems of the past.

[darkangel]

i'll give you that thor ,
it certainly would cut costs a lot ,but can anyone give a good reason why we stopped doing public executions,and started giving life without parole sentences?

also thor i wasn't trying to Pseudo-Mod , i actually think the guy has potential,and wanted him to get a good start.

[Tricho]

Fill a load of them in a room (Very Nazi-Esque, I know.) and fill the room with Chlorine gas. After ten slow, painful minutes they'll all be dead.

I can envision a dictatorship where prisoners that had committed smaller offences such as rape and armed robbery were forced to deal with the bodies of the deceased prisoners as a reminder of what will happen if they re-offend at a later date.

That's not what I actually believe in, but I have been researching the more hard-line justice systems of the past.

Yeah lets look at the Green River Killer aka Gary Ridgeway. This guy has 49 confirmed kills and several more that probably haven't been attributed to him. Cause he said he could not remember where he left the bodies. So okay lets elaborate that number to lets say 55 or 60 people and this guy gets a freaking plea bargain so he could live out the rest of his days. How is that fair to any of his 49-60 victims? That just sounds like a number in a book or like a old western story but those people were real live actual breathing human beings who had their lives stolen out from under them by some guy who got his kicks and giggles strangling women to death and raping them and sticking rocks in their pussies.


I mean that was his "general" killing method and yeah sure many of them were prostitutes but that doesn't make them any less human than lets say a beautiful college girl with a lot of potential who might be going to Harvard. What I urge somebody to do is to go out and randomly just count out fifty people as they walk buy and you will realize what a complete piece of shit. He does not deserve to live and I know somebody is going to go ahead and say to stop killing with killing is stupid. Though think about those 49 people who he never even once thought maybe I shouldn't kill her or maybe I should let he go. He never once ever gave any of those women that courtesy at all when he had them bound in the woods and he was about to stick his dick in her pussy and yeah sure I just sounded vulgar but sometimes to get a point across maybe you do need to be vulgar.