Jesus as a man?

[odin_dax]

What are your thoughts on Jesus as a married man to Mary? Would that knowledge, if fact, change your views on Jesus? Is it un-Biblical?

[Twist]

Other-Wouldn't give a damn

[Th0r]

Wouldn't change my opinions.

So little is actually known about Jesus.

[Day_N_Night]

It wouldn't change my views at all but since you seem to be the most devout Christian on this forum i would like to know if it would for you, odin?

[odin_dax]

Can't say I'm the most devout Christian here, but certainly the most vocal in discussion.

To me, the big thing is listing Mary first. That's a huge deal, especially in those times. Other than that, I hate the Catholic Empire and all it's corruptions of Christianity (don't hate Catholics though). I don't think the Bible is accurate in that it has been edited, and the teachings even more skewed.

Still, the overall message is there, and it's a good one. To me, the Bible is human wisdom passed on through the generations. To the spiritual point, I don't really follow any denomination, but I consider myself a Christian. Jesus was a wise man, and anything that followed his short life was man's creation, not His.

To me, it wouldn't make a difference. There are a lot of pagan rituals incorporated into Christianity to make it more popular (ie Christmas), so the whole virgin birth and resurrection actually don't matter to me, because I believe in God, I believe in the wisdom of the Bible, I believe we are all God's children, and Jesus is one of them, and He spoke the good truth.

My family isn't Jewish at all, but maybe I relate more to them than Catholics. I'm not saying there wasn't a virgin birth or that He didn't rise from the dead, but those are also pagan beliefs, or pre-Christian beliefs.

It really doesn't matter, and I do believe Jesus died for me. And I have faith in my creator. That's all that matters to me. I don't know what will happen when I die, but if there are end times, and I'm tested before Satan, then I have enough faith in me and God and my beliefs that the Holy Spirit will guide me through those trials.

Until then, I will treasure all life and treat others with respect, as I have always been doing. Everyone has a fair chance with me.

[7eleven mafia]

This wouldn't change a thing ti would only give more reason for me to doubt all religion because if God existed there would be only one true religion and therefore its doubtful because of so many other religions and its number of members

[DangerousLuck]

Well, the rumor of Jesus having a wife in Mary and then having children more or less stems from the Merovingian dynasty that ruled ancient France (Gaul) for some time, claiming their right to rule from the classic technique of stating that your ancestors were gods. When Christianity moved into France, the dynasty said, "Oh yeah, we're also descended from that Jesus fellow."

That said, it wouldn't make a difference to me. To approximate my religious beliefs is to say that I'm something of a Quaker and the idea of a more human Jesus is actually more appealing to me, and gives me, a standard, flawed human even more of a reason to emulate someone; that is to say that the more human an ideal person is, the more accessible they become to your average person.

[bankraped]

Bleh, his personal life has no bearing on me.

[Tricho]

All I have to say about Jesus is that he was a cult leader and on top of that when the legend becomes big enough it becomes fact. Like with paul revere and the famous story of riding to the colonies to warn them of the british; when in fact it was a guy named Israel bissel who did that and revere only road about 15 miles. The only reason revere became famous for it was because Paul Revere is a cool name and Israel Bissel sounds fucking retarded. Same with Jesus; his story just got thrown way out of proportion.

[odin_dax]

Excuse me, Jesus wasn't a cult leader. His teachings weren't radically different from Judaism in the sense that Wiccan is.

The difference between Jesus and Paul Revere is that there is historical evidence in the case of Paul Revere. You have no historical basis, or any basis for that matter, in regards to Jesus.

Lastly, that isn't the reason Paul Revere was canonized in US history.


Do well to differentiate fact from opinion in your next post.

[thief]

Jesus was an Alien...

[Tricho]

Excuse me, Jesus wasn't a cult leader. His teachings weren't radically different from Judaism in the sense that Wiccan is.

The difference between Jesus and Paul Revere is that there is historical evidence in the case of Paul Revere. You have no historical basis, or any basis for that matter, in regards to Jesus.

Lastly, that isn't the reason Paul Revere was canonized in US history.


Do well to differentiate fact from opinion in your next post.

How was he not a cult leader is the real question? Think about what said. That he was the son of "God" and that the only way to heaven was to take everything he said as absolute truth. That sounds a lot like a cult to me. I mean if your religious I don't mean to offend. I don't have to have been around to realize a cult when I see one. Several cult leaders today do the same thing. Look at the strong city cult with Wayne bent. Those people only believe they are going to get into heaven through Wayne Bent or look at Jim Jones or Shoko Ashara...ETC they all make the same exact claims as Jesus did. Whether it be eternal enlightenment or heaven or attaining nirvana or stepping on a level above human like with the heaven gate cult. They all make the same claims in some form or another.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Bissell


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Revere


That is the Israel Bissel article. Like I said when the legend becomes big enough it turns into fact.

[thief]

"If you wanna make money start a Religion" (cult)

[Tricho]

"If you wanna make money start a Religion" (cult)

Yeah lol Its called Monetary preaching in which you tell people to donate money and in someway god will help you out later on.

[thief]

Jesus always needs more money.

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

"If you wanna make money start a Religion" (cult)

What I find hilarious is that this quote is from L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of scientology and people still believe in it.....

[odin_dax]

By your logic, Buddha is a cult leader, Muhammad is a cult leader and Moses is a cult leader. If that's the case, why should I waste my time talking with you on the subject? What more can I say to someone who can't differentiate religious founders with money-making scammers? Last I checked, Jesus didn't ask for money, nor did he found a religious institution. Man did those things. It's not a question of whether or not I'm religious, but only by argumentative and historical standards do I address your stance.

L. Ron Hubbard... LOL! I loved the South Park episode.

[Tricho]

I know Scientology is such a ridiculous thing its not even funny at all really.


By your logic, Buddha is a cult leader, Muhammad is a cult leader and Moses is a cult leader. If that's the case, why should I waste my time talking with you on the subject? What more can I say to someone who can't differentiate religious founders with money-making scammers? Last I checked, Jesus didn't ask for money, nor did he found a religious institution. Man did those things. It's not a question of whether or not I'm religious, but only by argumentative and historical standards do I address your stance.

L. Ron Hubbard... LOL! I loved the South Park episode.

So they don't have to ask for money to be cult leaders. That isn't how it always works. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Odin.

[odin_dax]

My premise still stands. Why should anyone argue with a person who can't differentiate religious leaders with cult leaders? The burden of proof is on you. You can say that religious leaders are the same as cult leaders if you limit the scope of your criterion, but that doesn't make your statement or conclusion accurate.

For example, the Gospels are taken from firsthand accounts, or witnesses. Can you actually prove their accounts were false? Of course not, they're dead. Can you dismiss their accounts as corrupted by man? No, because there's no evidence of that, and the Dead Sea Scrolls support the opposite claim. If you don't want to believe in Christianity, that's one thing, but I don't see how you can claim Jesus as a cult leader when he didn't 1) ask for money, or 2) form a church (or its equivalent). He preached a message and even disclaimed some would not follow. What did he ask that was so "cultish"? Mass suicide? No. Tons of money? No. Ditch everything and live on a farm? No.

Cult leaders are proven scammers, some with psychological disorders. There's no evidence against any religious leader to say they were either or both.

Should I argue the same for Buddha and Muhammad as well, or did I make my point?

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

Cult leaders are proven scammers, some with psychological disorders. There's no evidence against any religious leader to say they were either or both.

Should I argue the same for Buddha and Muhammad as well, or did I make my point?

It's clear that you two have different definitions of what a cult/cult leader is.

As far as I'm concerned cult leaders just have to be a leader of a religious sect (cult).

Would you both mind explaining what you think a cult is?

I'm just curious.

[odin_dax]

I decided to take the quick and easy way and found statements already written that more or less align with my definition.

* Three ideas seem essential to the concept of a cult. One is thinking in terms of us versus them with total alienation from "them." The second is the intense, though often subtle, indoctrination techniques used to recruit and hold members. The third is the charismatic cult leader. Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings.

The indoctrination techniques include:
Subjection to stress and fatigue;
Social disruption, isolation and pressure;
Self criticism and humiliation;
Fear, anxiety, and paranoia;
Control of information;
Escalating commitment;
Use of auto-hypnosis to induce "peak" experiences.

* Cults are absent of the betterment of the individual person but rather than leader only. Cults try to subvert the human will with total and complete obedience to the leader of a group or sect.

* As taken from the Dictionary Application that came with my Apple Computer, the definitions of the word cult and the word religion are as follows:

cult |kəlt|

noun

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object : the cult of St. Olaf.

• a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister : a network of Satan-worshiping cults.

• a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing : a cult of personality surrounding the leaders.

religion |riˈlijən|

noun

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods : ideas about the relationship between science and religion.

• details of belief as taught or discussed : when the school first opened they taught only religion, Italian, and mathematics.

• a particular system of faith and worship : the world's great religions.

• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance : consumerism is the new religion.


http://www.faithresource.com/SpiritualAbuse/ArticlesSpiritAbuse/ReligionversusCult.htm