Remote Reconaiscance

[Th0r]

This isn't really a specific question, rather it's a lucid idea/problem that I feel could do with some discussion.

So the title tells all. This thread is about (The problem of...) remote surveillance/remote reconnaissance. Now I've always thought surveillance before a job is essential. Why? Because carrying out a bank robbery or even a crime as simple as domestic burglary not having done your homework (Which in this case is surveillance.) can be compared to a blind man in charge of a boat in a sea full of Icebergs. Whether it's right at the beginning of your voyage or right at the end, in the duration of journey he'll be fucked, somehow.

The same applies for criminals. Case the place; Always, no exceptions. :wink:

Which brings us smoothly to our problem. For this example I'm going to use bank robbery. However this can be made applicable to almost any robbery.

In order for the bank robbery to be successful the thief will have to know several things.


How many people (On average.) are in the bank at one time.
Staff arrivals/departures.
Cash delivery times.
The number of times (Again on average.) the Cops roll by in a day. (Patterns such as if they go past the bank at exactly the same time, every day would also have to be established in order to prevent a North Hollywood from happening).
Any types of 'hidden' external security precautions.


There are other things too, but I feel they're the most essential. Another factor is if I were to survey the building attempting to ascertain the above snippets of information required I'd probably get busted.

Anyone standing around a bank, art gallery, large property or any other building handling large sums of cash will get themselves into big trouble if they were seen lurking for to long especially if they had a camcorder in their possession.

And randomising surveillance is a bitch to since you'd soon be compromised.

Here is a partial solution to the problem.

A device that can be either perched above or at ground level would be positioned. It would consist of a video camera and the casing would have space for a laptop and other equipment if needs be.

This problem has been stumping me until I recently saw at the side of the road something on its side and obviously secured which looked like this.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xGkdYgVpETk/SD1lH-GkasI/AAAAAAAAAAM/FQshgpCTzB4/s320/TF3D_AluminiumCase.JPG

It was some kind of data device recording traffic with various motion sensor type devices and the like.

Now placing a camera in a steel suitcase isn't as easy as one would think.

You've got power to think about as well as whether the device could be interfered with. A kid fucking with the box is my first thought. You've also got data transmission to think about to.

In an ideal World I would place a GPS tracking device on the box in order to make sure if it was stolen it could be retrieved but maybe that's not practical.

What I'd like you to think about is...

How would you power the items in the box? (Laptop and camcorder batteries don't last forever. :wink:)

How would you transmit the data from the camcorder back to yourself?

(Receiving the data manually could be difficult.)

That's just a handful of potential problems I see and would like the innovative community here to take a look at. Please point out anymore you flaws you can see.

[thief]

It wouldnt have to be a box... it could be a moped. Underneath the seat is big enough for gear to Rec. what you want and it wont look out of place like a big shiny box. People wouldnt take a second look at it. Park it near the bank and leave it there... come back in two days to drive away and replace the gear inside.

[The Knowledge]

I don't think it' s impractical for a GPS device to be in the box, particularly as they don't require huge batteries.

Was the roadside box on a main road or something? And how was it secured? The main problem that springs to my mind is that an establishment like a bank is in a populated pedestrian area, the box would arouse curiosity and it wouldn't be long before someone either steals it, or reports it. Recently in my home town a suspicious looking box was reported in a phone box and the bomb squad was called in!

I think you're main problem is the discovery of the box, not the manufacture of. As you know I'm new here so don't know you're technical ability (thanks for the welcome by the way), but with money or contacts something like that could be made.

If I were to do it, I would approach a manufacturer in China, and either get a bespoke product made up, OR try and negotiate a deal getting a prototype made up, with the story that you may place a bulk order. If you see some of the technology that comes out of China (and a lot of cr*p too), you would see that they can make anything.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but I do thing that somebody or a company could be found, and for a good price. if you were to employ a UK company or individual to do it, it would probably cost thousands, though the application might warrant it and the quality would be more assured.

As for the power source, and electronics expert would surely be able to set the whole system up so that auxillary power packs kick in when the juice gets low on the first power pack.

Now, thinking about transmission of data - can you not get security systems that transmit cctv to your mobile phone, so that you can look at live pictures of your kitchen whilst you are on holiday? Thus that would indicate to me that the data can be transmitted digitally.

[The Knowledge]

It wouldnt have to be a box... it could be a moped. Underneath the seat is big enough for gear to Rec. what you want and it wont look out of place like a big shiny box. People wouldnt take a second look at it. Park it near the bank and leave it there... come back in two days to drive away and replace the gear inside.

Why didn't I think of that?

Good point - look at creative ways of disguising the device, moped or whatever...

[Th0r]

The 'Mo-Ped' idea isn't a bad one. But I thought about placing a car there too. However there is a problem. People notice 'foreign cars'. All to often after a robbery the trail gets investigated and the crooks get caught.

The Knowledge - The box was chained and padlocked to a sign post. It had labels belonging to a government department on both sides of the case.

The box was there for a week and faced several major supermarkets and numerous outlet stores.

My box would have labels relating to the UK Highways Agency on both sides and would be chained and padlocked to a sign post. It'd be checked every day and placed and extracted in the dead of night.

If I was going to make it I'd have it kitted out with the same solar panels these rucksacks which can charge iPods and the like are fitted with. Fuck power problems!

Alas that also has problems, so I'll poor more research into it...

Remote CCTV systems is another possibility.

I've also thought about using a large long life battery. Again research is required.

Cheers for the contributions.

[crazy white guy]

Art galleries don't handle much money or currency of any sort. Its all done through dealers. And stealing art is only practical if you have the connections that allow you to move all of it within a week. This is like super villainy type connections, not easy.

[Æhµ]

I think you'd be better at installing a very small covert wireless camera inside the facility and letting it feed to a remote recorder so you will have a good idea what goes on inside and outside of the target.

Look at the size of the newest DVR's available, most of these are tiny enough to go without notice in all but the most public of spaces (these are what the ATM skimmers are using). A matte black box mounted 10 feet up a telephone pole or street sign pole would hardly attract any attention and could be installed with a strap or a single nail. Rather than dragging a ladder around just jump on the shoulders of a partner, tack it in place and be gone in minutes.

I'd prefer to use an indoor camera, mounted to the underside of a piece of furniture - let's say the writing desk where you fill out your forms at a bank. In this case use a small wireless "cube" camera (a few years back the "X10" camera was all the rage), hook it up to a battery and sticky tape it to the underside of the desk. You'll get a great idea of the sort of foot traffic taking place in the area. Couple that with an audio feed and you'll have great surveillance.

Audio feeds and can also be done with a small wireless mic set to transmit at an FM frequency just off the normal radio dial. You can "walk" a typical radio to just above or just below the normal range of frequencies it can receive by adjusting the potentiometer that controls the carrier frequency. This way you can receive a signal at 80 FM or 120 FM for example, outside the range any accidental eavesdroppers might hear, and you can use any old radio to act as your "specialized" receiver, with a long-play recorder. You may even hear more of what's going on than you can see.

I entertained the notion of trying this scenario, as in a local bank has an in-wall ATM that is accessed from inside the banks customer lobby. The access door has a touch pad combination lock, and my idea was to use a wireless cam to capture the code when the ATM was being serviced. The camera also would have revealed the times the ATM was filled (although one could easily see that for themselves as the ATM would state it was being serviced at certain times). By waiting until a long holiday weekend, when ATMs are filled with a higher than usual amount of cash, one could pull off a bank robbery, and instead of relying on what the tellers hand you, a bandit could access the ATM and remove the cash drawers that were just filled (hypothetically of course).

[Th0r]

Well I've found something interesting.

And highly relevant to the topic.

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500001801&productId=1500487831&langId=-1&engine=froogle&keyword=Thumbs+Up+Wireless+Spy+Camera

It's a spy camera aimed at teenagers but, the camera is wireless and has a range of 100M.

The receiver can be plugged into a TV and then the video transmitted can be recorded. On VHS you'd be switching the tapes about once every three hours and if recording via DVD you'd probably be looking at somewhere around the same time.

I'm fairly confident that Blu-Ray technology provides a neat solution.

Using a Blu-Ray recorder with numerous Blu-Ray disks you'd get most of the footage you'd want. Of course there are a few initial technical flaws, but I'm confident with some adjustment they can all be ironed out.

Art galleries don't handle much money or currency of any sort. Its all done through dealers. And stealing art is only practical if you have the connections that allow you to move all of it within a week. This is like super villainy type connections, not easy.

Useful to know, but I was when referring to art galleries talking about an art theft.

I think you'd be better at installing a very small covert wireless camera inside the facility and letting it feed to a remote recorder so you will have a good idea what goes on inside and outside of the target.

That's basically what I've decided on.

For a standard bank facility have someone come in a month prior to the robbery with some actual purpose for being there geared up with a miniature camera, similar to the types of cameras being used to film ATM transactions.