Questions to mess up my philosphy teacher.

[Muncher]

Ok so Im taking philosophy in the first semester and my teacher has a extreme bias towards the Christian world view where as I take on Atheist/humanistic beliefs.

Im wondering what are some questions that christians have a hard time answering like do Christians believe in equal rights? why then can women not be priests? Not that I have anything wrong with there beliefs I would just like enjoy out witting the teacher. Cheers guys!

[odin_dax]

If you could outwit the teacher, then you'd be the teacher. How's that for philosophy?

[thief]

Just a few google searches and here is a few good questions I have found.

. "Why is your god the only valid god?"

. "By what method do you determine the difference between the voice of God, and the voice of the Devil pretending to be God?"

. "Why was little or no faith needed to believe in god during Old Testament times (god appeared to humans regularly) yet today christians have to rely on 100% faith for their belief?"

. "If Mohammed, Allah's prophet, came down to earth tomorrow, would you remain a Christian?"

. Answer this = "Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" (So you must hate everything)

. Answer this = "The Old Testament contains many references to slaves. Why is slavery never condemned in the Bible? You'd think "Thou shalt not keep thy brother in bondage" would be a Commandment. Can you answer this? "

. "If we are supposed to love our enemies and to forgive them, does that mean we should forgive and love the Devil?"

. "God wants everyone to worship and follow him and if they don't, they burn in hell for all eternity. What does this type of attitude say about his character? By definition, he would be described as a tyrant"

. "11.If Jesus died on the cross and spent three days in hell to pay for the sins of the world, then why would we have to go to hell ourselves and pay for them again? God is then, in essence, being paid for our sins twice. With that said, was Jesus' sacrifice not worthy enough? If that is the case, why should we care that he died for our sins if his sacrifice means nothing at all?"

[odin_dax]

. "Why is your god the only valid god?"

He said so! :fing02:

"By what method do you determine the difference between the voice of God, and the voice of the Devil pretending to be God?"

By the words, and Holy Spirit.

. "Why was little or no faith needed to believe in god during Old Testament times (god appeared to humans regularly) yet today christians have to rely on 100% faith for their belief?"

No one ever saw Him in the OT, it was still an act of faith for the masses to follow Him and His laws.

"If Mohammed, Allah's prophet, came down to earth tomorrow, would you remain a Christian?"

What if Jesus came down just before him or after?

. Answer this = "Luke 14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" (So you must hate everything)

Google define:disciple

Answer this = "The Old Testament contains many references to slaves. Why is slavery never condemned in the Bible? You'd think "Thou shalt not keep thy brother in bondage" would be a Commandment. Can you answer this? "

This has even been talked about on this forum. Many times when the Bible refers to slavery, it is what we would call indentured servitude, working to pay a debt.

. "If we are supposed to love our enemies and to forgive them, does that mean we should forgive and love the Devil?"

The Devil is God's enemy. Why love anything that seeks to destroy? The Bible doesn't say do that, but for those who do wrong on us, don't dwell in thoughts of revenge. Forgiveness is for those who seek it.

. "God wants everyone to worship and follow him and if they don't, they burn in hell for all eternity. What does this type of attitude say about his character? By definition, he would be described as a tyrant"

No, not a tyrant. Listen, if you had kids, would you not want them to love you? If they didn't, and didn't treat you with respect, would you not kick them out of the house? Hell, by definition, is separation from God. It's like fire and brimstone.

. "11.If Jesus died on the cross and spent three days in hell to pay for the sins of the world, then why would we have to go to hell ourselves and pay for them again? God is then, in essence, being paid for our sins twice. With that said, was Jesus' sacrifice not worthy enough? If that is the case, why should we care that he died for our sins if his sacrifice means nothing at all?"

Jesus forgiveness is for those who believe in Him. The gift of forgiveness would be wasted on those who never appreciated the gift in the first place. Jesus is the lamb, so we don't have to sacrifice to God for our sins.



Just answering... They weren't hard at all. I recently had a dinner conversation with three religious people who were more educated on the subject than I. It was at least 20 times more intense and difficult than all of the points above combined. No offense... :cool2:

[Muncher]

If you could outwit the teacher, then you'd be the teacher. How's that for philosophy?

My goal isnt to be better than him just try and bring him down off his high horse as he parades around the class preaching the name of God.

Thanks for your insight Thief.

[thief]

All your answers Odin are one sided though... its known that you follow the teaching of Jesus. Or so it seems. Your "answers" dont satisfy me. They are very preachy. I think the bible is a load of hog wash. We are all the sons of GOD not just Jesus... any man can become "Jesus like" it just takes effort.

So lets here these 20x questions that where hard to answer !!!

[lcnostra]

If you could outwit the teacher, then you'd be the teacher. How's that for philosophy?


Not necessarily. I think the ultimate "fuck you" against a professor or TA of such a subject is knowing that they probably spent upwards of $80,000 (undergrad) just so they could study a useless subject and become entirely pidgeonholed in their career choice. I'm not saying there's no such thing as a philosophy major going to med school or finding a real job with only their Bachelor's, but it's rare. I would just laugh it off with the assurance that you were smart enough to pick a real major.

[odin_dax]

All your answers Odin are one sided though... its known that you follow the teaching of Jesus. Or so it seems. Your "answers" dont satisfy me. They are very preachy. I think the bible is a load of hog wash. We are all the sons of GOD not just Jesus... any man can become "Jesus like" it just takes effort.

So lets here these 20x questions that where hard to answer !!!

Well, I answered in half jest, but since you raised the point... If you ask a religious question, then why not accept a religious answer? You claim that my answers are one-sided, but how can the ones I answered serious not be, in your context?

If one doesn't accept anything in the Bible, then why ask Biblical questions when one is not open to accepting the answer? In this way, if A is true (the Bible), the B is true (the answer). The question of whether or not the Bible is real, or anything about Christianity being real, is not in debate here.

Points 1, 4 and 5 weren't serious. I didn't directly answer 6. The rest are very legitimate answers, though short; however, my goal was to be brief.

[odin_dax]

Not necessarily. I think the ultimate "fuck you" against a professor or TA of such a subject is knowing that they probably spent upwards of $80,000 (undergrad) just so they could study a useless subject and become entirely pidgeonholed in their career choice. I'm not saying there's no such thing as a philosophy major going to med school or finding a real job with only their Bachelor's, but it's rare. I would just laugh it off with the assurance that you were smart enough to pick a real major.

I agree, that is the ultimate fu, and it's great when it happens, not just in philosophy. I think that Muncher is going to get schooled if he has to ask for questions and isn't prepared for rebuttal. I'm the teacher has prepared or heard such questions listed here before.

I had a liberal political science teacher who was very fair to all viewpoints and fostered discussion. He was only liberal when he voiced his personal opinion. That's how teaching should be. Off topic, politics shouldn't be discussed in a class not dedicated to it. That's wrong, and a misuse of influence.

Well, I'm sure Muncher will let us know the outcome.

[thief]

Im still waiting to hear these hard questions you had...

[odin_dax]

Im still waiting to hear these hard questions you had...

I can't give them to you, sorry. They were in the context of intense conversation. It wouldn't make sense to post them because most were based on the answers of previous questions. I don't remember most of them anyway. No question in the conversation was cut and dry like (most of) the ones posted. There wasn't a simple answer or reference

You'll just have to take my word for it.

[thief]

I see...

[Mlansky]

messing with religious ppl is fun..
here..

Ask him about the similarities between Jesus and other pagan Gods (virgin birth, # of disciples, death, resurrection, names, miracles..etc)
http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html

some biblical contradictions:

"If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."(John 5:31, J.C. speaking)
"I am one that bear witness of myself . . ."(John 8:18, J.C. speaking) :friday:

"I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
(Genesis 32:30)
"No man hath seen God at any time."
(John 1:18)
"And I [God] will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts . . ."
(Exodus 33:23)


". . . God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
(James:1:13)
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
(Genesis 22:1)

Have fun!

[Saturday]

I think we are all making the mistake of thinking that you are going to convince a religious person that they are wrong with logic. Clearly logic has not deterred them from believing in their religion their entire life, so some douche-bag college kid regurgitating "hard-to-answer" questions is not going make him breakdown and lose an argument.

You would be better off telling us a specific claim that your professor has tried to assert and then we could all come up with good counterpoints or a question that might stump him.

For instance, if he is pro-life for religious reasons... Ask him if women who are raped and impregnated should be allowed to abort... Or women who would die as a result of giving birth.

Point out to him that the Christian "story" is not only ficitonal, but is stolen fiction from ancient religions before it.

Finally, you can point out the horrible hypocrisy of the modern day Christian, battling between their supposed moral beliefs and often the political beliefs that are supposedly aligned with Christianity, but in reality are the complete inverse.

Actually ask him this: "It is true that Jesus said (paraphrasing) that it would be easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven. Does that mean that the Pope isn't going to heaven?"

OR

"Homosexuality is abomination according to the bible, correct?" (Yes) "So then isn't eating shrimp and crabs an abomination as well because they are shell fish.?"

[RoundElephant]

Why pray to God for a cure when he gave you the cancer to begin with?

[Th0r]

Why pray to God for a cure when he gave you the cancer to begin with?

It's just a test. ;)

If you want a laugh, http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/ is an amusing site to say the least.

[odin_dax]

It's just a test. ;)

If you want a laugh, http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/ is an amusing site to say the least.

I got stuck on so many questions. After a few clicks, I decided to give up and click on what I knew they wanted just to see the end.

I'm glad the laws of morals were proven absolute because I was against child molestation... Sorry for doubting otherwise to begin with! :hmmm:

[RoundElephant]

It's just a test. ;)

If you want a laugh, http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/ is an amusing site to say the least.

That site is infuriating. Fallacies riddle their arguments.

They don't even consider the idea of multiple universes/realities where those precious laws they discuss are completely different.

[Th0r]

It's all bullshit. I can't help wondering if that site is a parody, but then again when the Westboro Baptist Church exists I can't help but think it's not.

[Abrazaderas]

LOL, 'i don't care if absolute truth exists' reroutes to disney.com. that is fucking comedy.

[odin_dax]

If it's a parody, it's a very good one.

[RoundElephant]

It's unfortunately not a parody, here is their youtube channel :
hxxp://www.youtube.com/user/ProofThatGodExists#p/u

here is a video of him discussing how he gets to use the Bible in arguments with atheists as the bible is to a christian as logic is to an atheist.

erUHGaJrfjY

[Abrazaderas]

"you bring a fact - carbon dating can't be true because of this - and someone else says oh, yeah? what about this fact? and you say i did some research on the website and what about this? and you go back and forth, fact versus fact, instead of arguing from the authority of scripture!"

atrocity!

[cassidayhe]

It's just a test. ;)

If you want a laugh, http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/ is an amusing site to say the least.

That site is flawed. Lot's of people believe that absolute truth (in the moral and non-natural sense which this site is attempting to prove) and most other things non-natural are "truth-apt" (capable of being true or false), and are simply just false. So saying that absolute truth doesn't exist doesn't imply that it is absolutely true that it doesn't exists, it's just saying that absolute truth is false. So by wording it how they do with no place to argue they seem to think they're clever by tricking people into answering the first question that absolute truth exists by insisting that believing that absolute truth doesn't exist is a logical fallacy, when it is actually a perfectly reasonable and logical belief that can't be argued soundly just by the way this site is doing it.

Conclusion: That site is bullshit.

[RoundElephant]

I am now in direct contact with this Evangelical on his youtube channel. He literally refuses to directly answer a single one of my questions. Everything he says is "according to what absolute truth" and so on. Cheggit out:

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=erUHGaJrfjY&email=comment_reply_received

[Abrazaderas]

maddening, isn't it? ain't that the absolute truth!

[Th0r]

I am now in direct contact with this Evangelical on his youtube channel. He literally refuses to directly answer a single one of my questions. Everything he says is "according to what absolute truth" and so on. Cheggit out:

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=erUHGaJrfjY&email=comment_reply_received

Complete retards.

[Saturday]

I'm glad these people concede that logic belongs to the athiest side of the argument.

[RoundElephant]

I'm glad these people concede that logic belongs to the atheist side of the argument.

They say logic is the product of God so using logic proves God. They also say all atheists deep down know God exists and are just putting up a front.

[madscientist]

Start quoting from this site in class. His head will explode.

www.timecube.com

[Tarnak]

Odin I have a question for you:

1.) God is omnicient and omnipotent, he is the alpha and the omega
so it follows
2.) Nothing is greater than god

1.) The sum of everything is the greatest thing
2.) God is the sum of everything, otherwise god PLUS everything else would be greater than god

therefore

Everything is part of god... including "evil" and "the devil". You, in fact, are a little piece of god. Agreed?



Another question:

How do you feel about the recently discovered gospels of judas and thomas and their very different view of jesuses teachings? Do they hold as much validity as the gospels chosen by the catholic church?

[^.^]

So far, my favorite qoute from www.proofthatgodexists.org is:
Could God have used fallible people to write an infallible book? Of course, He is God after all.

Here's why: (source: http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishviewofjesus/a/jesus_virgin.htm, although there are many that make the same argument)

In the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible, the translation of Isaiah 7:14 seems to be the prophecy Matthew spoke of: "Therefore the L-rd himself will give you a sign: Behold a virgin will be with child and bear a son and she will call his name Immanuel" (KJV).

But wait! The Hebrew text (of which a 1900 year-old version is on display in the Israel Museum) doesn't mention anything about a "virgin." The Hebrew word for virgin is "betulah" but it appears nowhere in this text. The word used is "almah" which refers to a young woman, but not a virgin! Isaiah only uses the word once. But he knew how to use the word "betulah" -- he uses it five times.

The reason why the word virgin specifically appears in Mathew, is because he was reading a mistranslated Greek version of Isaiah where "almah" was interpenetrated as the word "virgin", not his fault that he couldn't read Hebrew, only Greek, but by any real examination of the argument, it must be accepted that Mathew "may have" been mistaken.

I've argued this point specifically with Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses actually): after about 8 hours of solid argument over the course of 4 weeks where they swapped out arguers a few times because I was a "tough nut", I ended up arguing with the pastor of the church. They are so deep into that "EVERYTHING in the bible is right" mentality, they they can't even accept the fact that maybe, just maybe, there might be a typo in the infallible book. In fact, one of the things they said was: "even if it was a typo, Jesus' birth was still of a virgin". They are so firm on the subject that arguing about it became a moot point, which is all they ever do. :pat: Use logic against their "ultimate authority" and they ignore you an hide behind misrepresented quotes (out of context, and usually parts of a sentence instead of the whole thing) from the same "ultimate authority" that's being argued about.

I find it all funny too, because it's all based on a fear of "hell", they don't REALLY believe in a god, they are just so afraid of death and hell they they'll listen in anything God tells them on the subject. It's a pity that God always seems to tell people (through evangelists mostly) that God needs money. Hmm, why would an omnipotent being care about money? Which is one of humans' more "evil causing" constructs.

Which religion is your teacher? Catholic, Witness, or Mormon? I've got several awesome things to say about Mormons too. :lmao: I had several teachers in High School that were Mormons, suffice it to say that I was one of the more difficult students to push religion on.

I am a "religious" person, but I'm far from any of the mainstream religions, and believing that there is a single conscious entity that acts as a"wizard behind the curtain" is a false, fear based, shortsighted view of the workings of the universe.

www.timecube.com even made parts of my head explode, the guy who rote that has a lot of anger and fear in him, it's hard to read his insane rantings. He needs a :joint: to chill out on, he's got cancer, he's allowed to have it.

[Saturday]

I think it is pretty safe to say that all that we know about "God" is that it is personification of our existential confusion.

[RoundElephant]

Great post '^.^', Mormonism is spreading fast the South Park episode about it pretty much sums up my opinions on Mormonism.

[Saturday]

Mormonism is only more obviously bullshit, but its bullshit is just as untrue as the bullshit peddled by other religions.

[^.^]

One of my favorite anti-Mormon explanations is from Kings James Bible, John 2:6 when Jesus turns water into wine:

6 :And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7 :Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 :And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
9 :When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was : (but the servants which drew the water knew ;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10:And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk , then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11:This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

http://tribes.tribe.net/psilocybin/thread/d096753c-4a94-45ee-a9e4-97b79f62fa00:

John 2:6-9 indicates that Jesus made water into wine by boiling mushrooms Mushroom-Tea, the waterpots were made of stone, not clay, stone pots were used for cooking, clay pots used for storing water. These pots already contained 2-3 firkins of a substance before the pots were filled with water.
A Firkin is an Old-English measurement meaning a fourth part. Half to three-quarters of fresh mushrooms with water makes a potent tea. Tea is the safest way to consume field mushrooms, killing dangerous bacteria like E. Coli. In the Atharva Veda, the Hindus called this Tea Soma. Greeks called mushroom jelly Ambrosia.
Those who drank the water made into wine said it was the most potent intoxicant St. John 2:10. The Bible tells us that Jesus making water into wine was the “beginning of miracles” … in other words no one saw any miracles until drinking the wine made from water. St. John 2:11.

I'm not saying this is true for a fact or anything, just that it's a very likely explanation, even more likely if you consider that Jesus was TRYING to be a religious figure, drugging people with a hallucinogen would be a good idea if you want people to think you can do miracles.

:soapbox:
If I was hopped up on mushrooms, I might believe in a messiah too... Mormons say that ALL chemical use is bad, however they overlook there there are multiple occasions in scripture when people get drunk, stoned, or hallucinate; somehow they never seem to accept that there may be a chemical involvement. So if you have to be on drugs to have a "religious" experience, what good is life without any drug at all? Isn't that like shunning their own religion?