Hypothetical Country

[Th0r]

This is just a bit of fun, but I'm interested in what you guys have to say.

XxX

Say you had your own country which was completely your own. Not a micro-nation but just an island which was separated by sea from all other countries.

How would you run it?

What would your defence and economic policies be?

I'm particularly interested in REL0AD's, CWG's and most other members thoughts and totally hypothetical plans.

[Twist]

This is just a bit of fun, but I'm interested in what you guys have to say.

XxX

Say you had your own country which was completely your own. Not a micro-nation but just an island which was separated by sea from all other countries.

How would you run it?

What would your defence and economic policies be?

I'm particularly interested in REL0AD's, CWG's and most other members thoughts and totally hypothetical plans.

Here are my thoughts although vague:

Defense - Don't give anybody a reason to attack you, spend on your money on public relations with foreign super powers, do something good and make them want to protect you. There is no way a small island could do that on its own. However if one can discreetly make nukes, then that packs a punch for the size of the country so you don't only have to suck dick for third party protection.

How to run it - A democratic republic. Still room for me and co-leaders to have ultimate power, while not alienating allies due to corruption or dictatorship.

Economics - That depends on what the island has. I think most of it would be white collar crime but not as low as nigeria. This would be government run by a small sector of intelligent people that takes advantage of other developed countires economic stability and wealth. The cover economics would be foreign investments, tourism, and depending on the size of the island exportation of goods. Science would also be a huge part, projects foreign people/entities would want to invest in or support while raising the standards of my country.

[odin_dax]

I would hide the island, like in Lost, then I would move the island if anyone ever found it, like in Lost, then I would run it like Jacob does in Lost, and have a group of people protect it, like in Lost.

[crazy white guy]

Socialist oligarchy. Mostly left wing ideals.

It depends on the size and population how the government would be structured. In general everything would be organized at the smallest level into unions,large work place based mini-governments (hospitals, corporations, ect) then municipal/city government. The city government would always have more veto power than anything beneath it unless the group is part of the higher teir of gov't. the municipal would be more incorporated into the higher teir than the unions-municipal bridge. The funding would all go from the tax payers to the provincial government then down to the lower teirs after the top teir gets a cut. The top teir is federal.

Responcibility...:

Federal: Defence, Major roadways, foreign policy, health care(1) (shared with provincial) Major policing(2).

Provincial: healthcare(shared), freeways and major arteries, Minor Policing(3)

Municipal: Minor roadways and service management (transit, hospital security guards and such)

Defence...:

Defence would be incorperated with programs such as pilot training, higher education and healthcare. Government sponsored health programs would be like jogging routes that are operated by police and military officers. The local police department would get a set of officers and recruits. they put them in health care and teaching aid programs that help give them real world experience dealing with people and such situations.

Police and military would NOT be directly joined with police. There would be places of overlap. Things like SWAT would be made up of both police and military and serve to give the police a higher level of training and the military more experience without having to go into battle. Another way that the military would be involved with police is simple patrols. At strategic locations such as transit exchanges and shopping centers a pair of uniformed military men would walk around a set route with radios connecting to police and security channels, ready to act on a moment's notice. They would have standard police power but never have the final say in any operation. They would always be subservient to police(at lieutenant and above.)

Foreign policy in relation to defense would be pretty easy. No causing problems unless our freedoms are threatened or if major economic sanctions are imposed. All armaments would be manufactured in country in the capital within a military factory complex. The workers would be mostly people involved in the military service going through officer training (free higher education with a 6 year service term)

Education...:

Education is supplemented by the government but not free. Elementary and high school are paid for by the government. There would be programs where someone cant have their higher education paid for if they serve a set number of years after their service based on what education they want. for trades, 4 years of trades training would be 3 years of mandatory service. For more expensive training like a 6 year medical, 4+ years of mandatory service. The service would always be in the field that is being trained for so that as soon as they are out of service they have experience. Among other things there would be government supported education systems where people that are poor or have other such problems can get debt absolution and go into training programs where they trade work in social and government service.

Economic...:

Key industries like sewage, electric and water would be government controlled "crown corporations." Things like telephone and internet that everyone used or was required to have for whatever reason would not be government controlled but would be subject to government control.

More to come when I have time.

[REL0AD]

http://i29.tinypic.com/205xglk.jpg

[bankraped]

If you kill the jews, who will collect the taxes?

[Tricho]

http://i29.tinypic.com/205xglk.jpg

http://bayimg.com/image/dadadaacp.jpg


I hear you on that brother.


Though Yeah a National Socialist form of government. Which reflects 1930s Germany but appears more modern. :dance:

[Th0r]

In my country liberties are essential. Firearms are totally legal, as is alcohol, most drugs apart from the addictive ones which have a decremental impact to ones life, of course.

Economics... One way of generating money would be to have a financial storage facility (I dislike using the word bank as a description.) for mobsters, politicians and other criminals. There's no interest and there's a cost to keeping the money in the facility.

Other ways of generating money including exporting drugs to Western countries (The US, UK, Canada and Australia.) and targeting popular parts of the drugs market where demand is high but supply is low, if not unreliable.

Defence is highly interesting.

There'd be no army as such since that would give anyone who wanted to invade the perfect reason and opportunity. Instead there'd be the people's militia, much like Switzerland.

Firearm ownership is totally compulsory and every household would have it's own ammunition supply in case of attack. Everyone would have a job to do in the event of attack.

We'd give 'em hell on the beaches.

The equivalent of the Gestapo/Secret Service would be an elite group of people who'd never be based on the island but always in other countries.

They'd be responsible for handling imports and exports as well as revenge missions in case an invasion or bombing strike were to take place.

One example of that would be if the UK bombed and attacked the island, killing the majority of citizens. The agent (Very-Mossad-Esque) in London would organise a large dirty bomb attack on the capital. Killing hundreds, if not thousands of people and costing the British Govt. billions in the clean-up operation.

As for laws there'd be very few.

Murder, destruction of another's property with malicious intent, the distribution of illicit substances (See my comment on substances having detrimental impacts.) and treachery would be crimes with several other offences being considered criminal.

As for National Socialism it's a dangerous route to go down, REL0AD.

Although I admire the Nazi's economic sense. Save the economy by militarising.

[bankraped]

Although I admire the Nazi's economic sense. Save the economy by militarising.
Or just save the economy by building up infrastructure. Once you have that, build up the schools. Then when those children grow up, give them research jobs. knock the technology of your island ahead a few decades. When immigration starts, and people want in, build an extension to the island.

[Th0r]

Or just save the economy by building up infrastructure. Once you have that, build up the schools. Then when those children grow up, give them research jobs. knock the technology of your island ahead a few decades. When immigration starts, and people want in, build an extension to the island.

Infrastructure was an important part of AH's economic recovery plan.

Remember the Autobahn?

The children of the Island (My ideal population would be around 250-500.) would be taught in such a way in that they weren't being indoctrinated but that they'd be loyal to their country, in this case the Island. They'd be taught languages, sciences and IT skills from a very early age.

They'd also be taught English, with emphasis on the literature aspect of the English subject. I'd have them read the classics as well as modern tales which emphasise basic rules and patterns of behaviour.

So yes. As well as language, science and IT subjects they'd also be learning technical skills such as design and electronics as well as advanced Math, to make sure as the future they'd be decades ahead of the rest of the World.

[bankraped]

I wouldn't think nationalism is a good idea, but that's just me.
Also, I think children should be brought up speaking a myriad of languages. I also think that a bit of eugenics should be employed here and there.

But say we were starting off from scratch. just a bunch of independent colonists.
First off, we'd have to develop an economy based mostly in the Primary(Extractive) sector. Since they're on an Island, fish would be a good place to start.
Economics wise, I'd like to see some kind of Anarcho-Capitalism employed.
That said... As the economy grows, and shit starts to prosper, the Hopitals, banks, construction sector and poilce will be run by the government. I'm thinking, it would be kind of socialist. But the farms and fisheries would be run on a person to person basis.
I hope that makes sense...

[crazy white guy]

Weed would be legal in my country but the government would still have some anti weed activities. During all weed celebration days there would be a big support for medical marijuana, but only the old, uncool people would get on stage. And it would be optional that they wear clothing. I would have many government programs that made weed uncool. Drug laws would be similar to that of Amsterdam, no synthetics unless they are approved by a medical council on a federal basis.

Judicial, legislative and industry would be separate government entities entirely. Each would have their senate, a speaker and two 'prime protectors' one for peace and the second would be to uphold the rights outlined in the 'Charter of rights and freedoms'.

Mostly left wing ideal. Change would be enacted if it is needed but it would always go through the senate. The leader, first consul does not have absolute veto power. he can only veto a bill if there's more than 40% opposition. Prime protectors can veto anything. They must explain their veto to a judge in the highest court if it is questioned in the slightest.

Abortion would be legal in cases where it would pose a medical risk to the mother or if it was an instance of rape or underage pregnancy. Any other reason would be a court decision. The person themselves would have to appeal.

[odin_dax]

Mostly left wing, but you need approval for an abortion? Wow!

Only 40% opposition?!

[crazy white guy]

Only 40% opposition?!

Yes. That's to protect from a take over type tactic like buying out the senators and having a massively opposed law changed. If there's any suspicion, the law can be vetoed. But that's only in a case where the vote is reasonably close. There's no 51% passes in a bill that isn't good for everyone. I can imagine that this would be a popular power. It would force the government to think of ways to do things that make a larger percentage of the country happy.

[odin_dax]

40% opposition seems rather high. Why not make it 2/3's in favor? Or even higher?

[crazy white guy]

40% opposition seems rather high. Why not make it 2/3's in favor? Or even higher?

you get the idea. Precautions would be taken.

Also there would be no Senators as we have not than get outrageous amounts of money. It would be a 80,000/year job with much public benifits and a 60,000$/annum retirement package. In canada a senator gets 300,000 and needs no high school education and only needs to be 30 years old. The only other requirements are citizenship and they must have lived in canada for a set length of time.

Anyone trying to get into my government would need:

-A 4 year minimum higher education in any field
-Citizenship
-at least 35 years of age
-contributed to the social, military or public system for at least 1 year total.
-Must have lived in the country for at least 12 years unless they served in the military for 6 years or more or in the social/public works for 8 years.
-must complete basic firearms and weapons training.

The last point would sound like bullshit. But I like the idea. I would want the citizens to know that if anyone were to push through the beaches into the towns then to the capital, the leaders would not be afraid to fight beside their citizens.

And at military funerals the leaders could participate in the rifle salute, they could hold firearm safety displays and whatnot.

I would want my government to be VERY public. All government paperwork would be open to public scrutiny in digital form. It would not be organized professionally, just available if needed. The only thing that would be private is the top branches of government and their dealings as well as anything involved with the judicial system. Only after a judicial action has reached a conclusion will there be documents released and there will be a short time where the defending party has the right to a free appeal. After such amount of time, the appeal process would not be immediate, It would have to go through the provincial and federal court before being heard.

[Æhµ]

Has anyone here heard of Sealand?

http://www.sealandgov.org/

It's an old WWII gun platform off the coast of England. It's owner declared it a sovereign nation in 1967, and fought off challenges from the British government, and is still open for business and issues it's own passport.

Sealand demonstrates one problem all small nations have, they depend heavily on imports to remain viable. Cuba for instance is heavily dependent on food imports.

I know you didn't want to get into "micro-nations" but I had to throw in Sealand, finding an old derelict platform in international waters and turning it into your own sovereign nation has to rank high up there on "cool things to do in your spare time".

[Twist]

Interesting Æhµ. I just came across this website http://guana.com/welcome/welcome/welcome.html you can rent the island for around 21,000$ or more depending on the time you want. About 28,000$ for almost 3 months. Of course you couldn't turn it in to a country as it is a resort however still interesting I'd love to rent it.

[REL0AD]

If I had my own country I know for a fact the power would go to my head & fuck the whole thing up. If the power didn't fuck everything up my paranoia would.

[Tarnak]

Infrastructure was an important part of AH's economic recovery plan.

Remember the Autobahn?

The children of the Island (My ideal population would be around 250-500.) would be taught in such a way in that they weren't being indoctrinated but that they'd be loyal to their country, in this case the Island. They'd be taught languages, sciences and IT skills from a very early age.

They'd also be taught English, with emphasis on the literature aspect of the English subject. I'd have them read the classics as well as modern tales which emphasise basic rules and patterns of behaviour.

So yes. As well as language, science and IT subjects they'd also be learning technical skills such as design and electronics as well as advanced Math, to make sure as the future they'd be decades ahead of the rest of the World.

This is the best system and would be the most succesful. But I would also teach the kids various militant stuff in school so nobody has the chance to get an advantage by learning how to violence effectively. Also people knowing how to use the arms they have a right to have makes the country that much harder to fuck with.

You should have the right to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't fuck with someone elses right to do what they want.

How would the elections/government itself be decided though Th0r?

[Th0r]

This is the best system and would be the most succesful. But I would also teach the kids various militant stuff in school so nobody has the chance to get an advantage by learning how to violence effectively. Also people knowing how to use the arms they have a right to have makes the country that much harder to fuck with.

You should have the right to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't fuck with someone elses right to do what they want.

How would the elections/government itself be decided though Th0r?

See Switzerland Tarnak. Everyone is in the militia.

A militia would be more effective if people didn't just know how to fire a gun (After all, what happens when the ammo runs out. Or the leader doesn't want guns around anymore.) so I agree with you.

My vision, like I said earlier would be for the enemy to die on the beaches in scores. My country would put up a fight like the Jap's did on Iwo Jima. It doesn't matter how many people die, even if the entire force is killed as long as they don't take the island or get away with a relatively intact force.

On the subject of elections.

There are no political parties as such.

Why, you ask? Surely that's unfair you say?

No. All political parties become the same thing over time, with different ways of expressing exactly the same thing.

With individual politicians much success can be achieved.

Oh, and anyone can run for presidency. But there's a limit to the number of people who can stand in the elections. The people who eventually run are chosen by the people in a short-listing exercise.

A cabinet is elected alongside the president to ensure that we don't have a AH wannabe rule us and subsequently have us crushed.

As well as that anyone can vote. Doesn't matter if you're a kid, 65 or a retard.

[crazy white guy]

I'd want to have a devision of the military acting as reserves that was really like a over glorified health club/scouts groups

they would receive basic military training then allot 5-10 days every month doing training and service with the local military establishment. Some people will do things like do military drills for the general's parade type deals while others would fill their non-training time by operating a beverage counter at a government service/economy convention or similar.

Its basically a big thing that allows anyone who wants to shoot guns and blow stuff up, stay fit and gain experience + confidence, just do it. It will let the 16 year olds enter the work force and get work experience before they are hired as a part time worker. It also allows middle aged people to stay fit and help their community and the economy by doing whatever they are trained in but for the country.

In the reserves there are paid and unpaid positions. Most are unpaid.

[Tarnak]

Yes, Th0r, and I've heard gun crime is very low in switzerland as a result.

I like your system BUT... I don't know about an elected cabinet. Maybe some members, but it seems like you'd want to have >some< people in power who aren't making plays to buy votes.