Adolf Hitler

[NINEBREAKER]

because it was sugested that i make a post all about hitler. in this thread. http://forum.rorta.net/showthread.php?t=3670

i decided to do so.

what are your veiws on this man? was he a great leader? or a mass murdering psychopath.

give me your thoughts on the subject

[Æhµ]

He was an inspirational leader. Does that make him great?

He tried to revive an utterly devastated Germany. He used a number of socialist and fascist ideologues. One of those was the national commitment to build the Autobahn. Many of the workers who left to go on this great work, digging stretches of highway out by hand, grew disillusioned at the amount of toil expected from them, while they subsisted on little. Like many of Hitler's Utopian ideas, they quickly ran smack into a wall called "reality".

Did he truly hate the Jews? He made them the scapegoat for how poorly Germany was suffering, and Jews did form themselves into economic collectives to better position themselves to purchase businesses, while many Germans did not. I think Hitler needed to vilify the Jews to give his movement a cause to rally around, but then it quickly took on a life of it's own. He staffed his party with psychotic mad men and did nothing to interfere with their decimation of "dissidents" and Jews. So that makes Hitler 100% culpable for all their crimes. I mean, who would put people like Mengele or Goebbels in charge of ANYTHING?

As a leader he had one major failing (well many failings, but this one in particular), that was his blind acceptance of his unqualified Nazi sycophants like Goering as a military leader. Goering failed so utterly to create a true air force that it alone can be claimed to have cost Hitler the war. Goering used early German aeroplane advances to convince Hitler he had the most advanced and powerful air force in the world, when in reality it was all smoke and mirrors. After the initial success with the blitzkrieg, the Luftwaffe became stagnant. No development of a long range bomber, beaten by Britain by their advances in Radar technology, a Messerschmidt that never advanced to keep up with British and American fighters, and on and on. Goering spent most of his war raiding European museums for their art than he did planning the next phase of the war and ensuring his Luftwaffe would be able to keep up. Hitler's failing is that he didn't see past their sycophantic loyalty to their complete failings as military planners, and the ones that did have military competence, weren't "loyal enough" and got "suicided" (Rommel, Speer).

You gotta give Hitler props for one thing though, Nazi's had cool uniforms!

[Tricho]

I personally think Adolf Hitler was a great leader though Hitler in 44 and 45 was utterly pathetic and caused many of the reasons National Socialists lost the war and instead of posting a long drawn out post on what I view about Hitler. I will post about the ideology National Socialist Germany stood for instead. I do not expect to recreate "1930's Germany" here in the US. I give the nod to those ideals and sociopolitical philosophies because I believe them to be timeless. I find the basic and foundational tenets of that ideology to be in accord with the principles of naturalism and agree with natural law. I espouse National Socialism because in my opinion, it represents the highest and most logical form of human government.

I in no way think we are living in Germany in the 1930's. So I would be a moron to just "give up" because everybody else believes a certain way and the war ended sixty four years ago. The precepts and philosophy of that time meet my needs in the current crisis and therefore I endorse the main principles of that age in that country. I work hard to spread National Socialism to fellow Aryans so they wake up to the truth of the world; instead of living in a completely ridiculous land where its okay to date blacks and Hispanics and ruin pure blood.

My dead brothers of the Waffen SS march with me and hopefully all other whites in spirit in these very trying times. I Look back to the Waffen SS men as a model for future National Socialists. The Waffen SS was a true staple of National Socialist ideals at large. They were fearless soldiers, great fellows and they might be accused murderers though what they did was for the Aryan race and secure a future for the Aryan race and Aryan children. I can sit around all day and be like oh well what could have been if they won. No fuck that; that was the past. Its time for the whites to pick themselves up by their collective boot straps and recreate the Reich. Hail Victory!!!

[odin_dax]

Hitler was a leader, yes, but was he good? No.

He was a mass murdering psychopath. He was a coward that hid a closet during a protest in Munich. He blamed others that didn't have anything to do with the condition of Germany, he killed and removed all who opposed him or voiced concern, he attacked many countries that weren't involved in WW1.

Yes, he really hated Jews.

People elected him because of Germany's condition after WW1. People wanted change, and he was a great speaker (remind you of anyone?), but he took control of power, oppressed the masses and put key people in power so he could keep control. That makes him a bad leader. Many wanted to avoid WW2, many wanted to pull out. Everyone knew what was going on at the concentration camps. Anyone speaking out against just that part of Hitler's plan would disappear. How is that good leadership? That's just ruthless power.

There were many innocent Germans forced to fight. It was the youngest kids that were truly brainwashed. If you were a German of fighting age, would you choose to fight or would you rather die against a wall to a firing squad?

Germany had plenty to be angry about. They took blame for WW1 even though they didn't start it, they would've won WW1 if the public opinion within Germany wasn't so ignorantly opposed to the war (they thought they were going to starve, for example), and France took over many lands belonging to Germany after WW1. Germany hated France, and rightfully so (but that isn't to play on the everyone hates France stereotype).

Tricho, I hope your SS brothers continue to burn in Hell.

[Æhµ]

Hitler was a leader, yes, but was he good? No.

Do you mean, was he good as in morally good, or as in effective?

Obviously there wasn't a scrap of morality in Hitler, but I have to say that given the state of Germany in the 20's and 30's, Hitler was an effective leader. He took an impoverished nation that wasn't even permitted an army and turned it into the mightiest army on earth by 1939. Hitler took the easy path, that of the ruthless tyrant, where "the ends justify the means".

Tricho, I hope your SS brothers continue to burn in Hell.

Don't worry they will.

People wanted change, and he was a great speaker (remind you of anyone?)

Absolutely. And let me tell you, when Reagan took office I was immediately struck by the parallels! (that's who we're talking about right?)

[NINEBREAKER]

Tricho tell me more about your ideolgy. i'm curious to hear what all you have to say. dosnt he remind you guys of someone. what was his name again. like kbk or something like that. he started the race and reason post i'm to lasy to look for

[crazy white guy]

Accomplishments..:

-Organized a country full of the poorest people in most of the western world into the proudest and richest (debatable point) nation in the world
-Created massive medical advances in medicine, particularly in areas like hypothermia, toxicology, neurology,
(http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977362328)-He gave the german people exactly what they needed, a strong leader that couldn't be stopped by anything but himself.

Blunders...:

-Got an STI, became delusional and died (it was said he might have had Parkinson's or a similar disease)
-Followed in Napoleon's footsteps and got assraped on the Prussian/rusky front He should have left the russians as unwilling allies or just left out of the campeign entirely. That would have meant that he would have moore troops and more money to throw at fighting in the west.
-let his supplies run out almost completely to the end of his reign
-Didn't complete the projects that would have won the war for him (long range bombers + nukes and more advanced weaponry)
-He didn't appoint a competent, like minded person to replace him. He was in a position where he had a country that was crippling and crumbling beneath him and it wasn't because it was weak, it was that the leader was not pushing it hard enough. Hitler was like the god of squeezing blood from a stone. He could have kept the war running for another 5 years if he was in the state of mind to do so.

With the long range pseudo-steal bombers, he could have pushed over the lines and hit strategic locations and still had the bombers for a second run. They wouldn't need to be suicide bombers. When I say stealth, I mean they made it so the primitive radar sites too little time to contact the airbase and have an intercept waiting. The bombers would have already hit their target by the time the opposition was notified. ANd they couldnt get to the location fast enough to respond.

link to the bomber =


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1198112/Sleek-swift-deadly--Hitlers-stealth-bomber-turned-tide-Britain.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1198112/Sleek-swift-deadly--Hitlers-stealth-bomber-turned-tide-Britain.html)

[Th0r]

I resent the term 'mass murdering psychopath', as a means of describing AH.

Why?

Did Hitler go to the concentration camps and kill people?

No.

Did anyone see Hitler in the Warsaw Ghetto mercilessly shooting Jews?

No.

So he wasn't a mass murderer. He ordered (Actually it was Himmler & Heydrich who ordered the final solution at the Wannsee Conference, I believe.) and was ultimately responsible for the deaths of the millions who died.

Also what evidence do we have that he was a Psychopath? If we said Hitler was a Psychopath what does that make every president and prime minister, when they knew that soldiers, ultimately under their command were out murdering people, eh?

There's evidence to suggest AH was mentally ill and he may well have been a Psychopath, however, I just don't believe that's the case.

XxX

Tricho, I'll advise against you being explicitly racist here.

On the SS, I watched a film on Dunkirk, yesterday. Very amusing. Particularly when six British soldiers and their wounded comrade are in a trench, armed with Lee Enfields and 400 members of Hitler's most elite SS unit, and half a dozen Panzer's come out of bushes.

[odin_dax]

He also didn't create medical advances. His administration permitted doctors to cut quickly to human testing, and the testing was most trial and error. His famous scientists said something like, "You can discredit me, but don't discredit my work."

[REL0AD]

Hasn't anyone mentioned he was addicted to a cocktail of drugs, including methamphetamine which was adminstired by a JEWISH doctor IIRC.

---------------------------
Tricho IS NOT kbk. kbk was an idiot, Tricho seems to have a little common sense.

[NINEBREAKER]

Hasn't anyone mentioned he was addicted to a cocktail of drugs, including methamphetamine which was adminstired by a JEWISH doctor IIRC.

---------------------------
Tricho IS NOT kbk. kbk was an idiot, Tricho seems to have a little common sense.

also wasn't one of his parents jewish? i watched a thing on the history channel that said something about having jews in his family

[Th0r]

also wasn't one of his parents jewish? i watched a thing on the history channel that said something about having jews in his family

There's a possibility he had a Jewish relative who was a more closely related to his maternal grandmother, I believe.

From 1942 until his death in 1945, Adolf Hitler may have been given intravenous injections of methamphetamine by his personal physician Theodor Morell as a treatment for depression and fatigue. It is possible that it was used to treat Hitler's speculated Parkinson's disease

REL0AD, that's not an addiction. Also it's a possibility as indicated by the 'may'.

[REL0AD]

Different source Th0r - a documentry I watched hinted more towards that he was addicted. "High Hitler" it was called.

Oh, he was a great leader. I'd have loved to fight for the Waffen-SS, hell I'd be HONOURED. Tricho do you have MSN?

[Th0r]

Again on the topic of the SS, the documentary I was watching came to an interesting ending.

The SS who've been marching the prisoners for some time stop and the leader of the British Troops starts to argue with the SS captain. The SS Captain or Scharführer walks off and the British leader follows him and the SS Captain turns around and shoots him twice.

The SS by that point have locked the Brits in a hut and call for five people to volunteer themselves as targets for the firing squad. Five people do so (One death is particularly gory as you see blood and brain being spewed out.) and they ask for another five.

The Brits can't decide who and start to fight, in a hut. An SS soldier brings out his Model 24 grenades and throws them in.

XxX

And Sky TV documentaries have a habit of being incorrect.

[Micro]

Mr. Adolf did have some major problems. Like playing a great military leader, he should have left that at real generals (he could have saved at least 1milj. soldiers by doing so and the war could have drawn to the fifties).
Also on the subject of Gobbels, the guy might have been a nutcase/psycho but damn did he know propaganda. HE is one of the major reasons for Hitlers success and rise to power.

[REL0AD]

Also on the subject of Gobbels, the guy might have been a nutcase/psycho but damn did he know propaganda. HE is one of the major reasons for Hitlers success and rise to power.

True that. :You_Rock_

[crazy white guy]

Mr. Adolf did have some major problems. Like playing a great military leader, he should have left that at real generals (he could have saved at least 1milj. soldiers by doing so and the war could have drawn to the fifties). .

I would never say hes a bad military leader. He just would have been better served to take advice from his generals and maybe even appointed a council to help him make decisions. A lot of the reason why his choices declined were that he had too much to deal with and couldn't focus his attention enough on each problem. "bit off more than he could chew" I agree with the Himmler point. Hitler wasn't the one who oversaw the massacres there's not very strong evidence that he knew exactly how many Jews were being killed. There was a point made on a discovery channel documentary* that Hitler didn't care about the jews further than the personal issues and that he was killing them only for the benefits it gave him. Having a whole race hate a certain group is a great way to keep them proud and strong.

[Æhµ]

There was a lot of misinformation circulated around during the war designed to undermine Hitler's grip on the Nazi mindset, and some of these were that he was related to Jews, that his grandmother was actually Jewish, that he razed his old boyhood village because it contained links to his Jewish ancestry, etc. etc.

You saw the same sort of propaganda during the second Iraq invasion, when after US troops shot dead Saddam Hussein's son, they claimed he was carrying a briefcase full of condoms and viagra pills, and liked kinky sex.

Why spread such drivel? To get the populace to turn against their leader, to convince them their leader is trash, not worthy of their slavish devotion.

[Tarnak]

Killing the Jews was a pretty stupid move. Talk about serious brain drain on your country when you're killing the educated class.

If Hitler hadn't exterminated a valuable part of the German population, maybe they would have gotten the atom bomb.

Should've just blamed the gypsies or something.

[Micro]

Should've just blamed the gypsies or something.

This mighthave been a good tactic, but how could you blame them on sabotaging anything? They dont worka anywhere!

[crazy white guy]

Killing the Jews was a pretty stupid move. Talk about serious brain drain on your country when you're killing the educated class.

If Hitler hadn't exterminated a valuable part of the German population, maybe they would have gotten the atom bomb.

Should've just blamed the gypsies or something.

He killed the educated jews because they could be easily replaced by germans. Even if the germans werent as qualified, they would work twice as hard if they had a gun to their back.

[Tarnak]

He killed the educated jews because they could be easily replaced by germans. Even if the germans werent as qualified, they would work twice as hard if they had a gun to their back.

And as a result we got all of these people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:German_Jews_who_emigrated_to_the_United_S tates_to_escape_Nazism

and probably a lot more.

Qualify your statement that germans would work twice as hard as jews.

[crazy white guy]

And as a result we got all of these people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:German_Jews_who_emigrated_to_the_United_S tates_to_escape_Nazism

and probably a lot more.

Qualify your statement that germans would work twice as hard as jews.

Qualify? Its not a fact being recited. Its deduced opinion. They would be forced to a higher level of productivity than in a non-fascist society.

[Tarnak]

In the long term the carrot motivates a lot more than the stick. People excel at their jobs for chances at raises. They do the bare minimum for the threat of being fired.

And why wouldn't jews, if they had simply been accepted as germans, have been able to work just as hard under the same threat of force?

Unless you're comparing non-coerced jews with coerced germans... which is apples and oranges but i'd take the non-coerced.

[Anders Hoveland]

If the following video comes as a huge surprise to you, it is only because you have been a victim of multicultural propaganda since you entered school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuFbERVSpzU

[Beyond]

I started re-reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" again, which I, along with many others, consider to be single greatest history book ever written. The amount of detail and insight is insane. Shirer lived in Nazi German just prior to World War 2 and saw Hitler's ascension first-hand.

People can talk about how Hitler was gifted politically and while it may be true you have to realize that a series of fuck-ups beyond his control ultimately lead to him coming into power. Kurt von Schleicher and Franz von Papen basically indirectly sabotaged German politics which paved the way for Hitler's success. Ironically, their intentions were to preserve Germany and prevent Hitler from even having a chance by maintaining the Monarchy, which Hindenburg shot down.

Let's also not forget the tremendeous leg work and propaganda on behalf of Goebbels, Goring, Rohm, and to an extent, Hess in the early days of the NAZI movement. Let's also not forget that a locksmith, Anton Drexler, was ultimately responsible for the entire thing happening in the first place.

[odin_dax]

If the following video comes as a huge surprise to you, it is only because you have been a victim of multicultural propaganda since you entered school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuFbERVSpzU

What is the point?

[odin_dax]

I started re-reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" again, which I, along with many others, consider to be single greatest history book ever written. The amount of detail and insight is insane. Shirer lived in Nazi German just prior to World War 2 and saw Hitler's ascension first-hand.

People can talk about how Hitler was gifted politically and while it may be true you have to realize that a series of fuck-ups beyond his control ultimately lead to him coming into power. Kurt von Schleicher and Franz von Papen basically indirectly sabotaged German politics which paved the way for Hitler's success. Ironically, their intentions were to preserve Germany and prevent Hitler from even having a chance by maintaining the Monarchy, which Hindenburg shot down.

Let's also not forget the tremendeous leg work and propaganda on behalf of Goebbels, Goring, Rohm, and to an extent, Hess in the early days of the NAZI movement. Let's also not forget that a locksmith, Anton Drexler, was ultimately responsible for the entire thing happening in the first place.

How did Kurt von Schleicher and Franz von Papen sabotage Germany politics?

What did Anton Drexler do?

[Beyond]

How did Kurt von Schleicher and Franz von Papen sabotage Germany politics?

While Schleicher was trying to prevent the Nazi's from assuming control, and ultimately chancellorship, Papan was holding meetings with Hindenburg and Hitler behind his back in hopes of guaranteeing Hitler would become Germany's new chancellor.

Basically, Schleicher was doing all the wrong things to push Papan for chancellor whilst Papan was bragging about Hitler behind his back.

What did Anton Drexler do?

Drexler was Hitler's mentor from the start. He gave him membership to NSDAP and essentially groomed him. If you've ever read Mein Kampf, you'll know Hitler's genuine feelings for the man.

[Beyond]

Sidenote, has anyone ever read any of the books written post WW2 by Albert Speer? I've read Rommel's book and of course Mein Kampfy Chair but until recently, I was unaware that Speer authored multiple books about his experience with the Third Reich. I'm curious as to which book of his is the best to start with.

[Th0r]

It's generally accepted that Inside the Third Reich is the better of the two more famous Speer works. Never read it personally but I know a collector of Nazi related literature (Has multiple looted originals of Mein Kampf.) who has read pretty much everything authored by Speer he could get his hands on.

[Beyond]

It's generally accepted that Inside the Third Reich is the better of the two more famous Speer works. Never read it personally but I know a collector of Nazi related literature (Has multiple looted originals of Mein Kampf.) who has read pretty much everything authored by Speer he could get his hands on.

Thank you. I just placed my order on Amazon.