Conspiracy Nuts

[odin_dax]

I've been running into conspiracy nuts a lot lately, mainly on the topic of Masonry and the NWO. These recent events inspired me to write what I honestly believe about these people.

Conspiracy/NWO nuts can be categorized into at least one of the following groups:
1. Stupid people
2. Bored people
3. Cynical people
*overlap may occur

Now, the most recent run-in was about FEMA and Haiti. A self-proclaimed believer in the NWO suggested in a chat that the Haiti earthquake was a test of a US Naval secret weapon. FEMA, following NWO commands, stocked up on coffins beforehand. The coffins are for the Haitian dead, who were the victims of a form of population control.

Insert Occam's Razor.

My reply to this silly reasoning was simply, "What is FEMA's role?" With some small talk in between, I ended with something like, "Isn't it more plausible, given FEMA's purpose, that the coffins were ordered in case a tragic event occurred?" Her quick reply was simply, "No."

Her statements raised question I didn't ask. "If the weapon is supposed to be secret, how do you know about it?" "How credible is that source?" "Why test it on Haiti? Why not an enemy?" "How do you connect FEMA's coffin demand with Haiti? In other words, what proof is there?" "Are we actually sending the coffins to Haiti?" etc etc etc etc

Back to the three groups.

1. Stupid People will believe in any conspiracy because it sounds possible. They don't use critical reasoning, nor do they conduct their own research. Furthermore, there is never any evidence to suggest their position is correct, yet they still believe it.

2. Bored People will believe in conspiracies to make their lives more entertaining, or to entertain their imaginations. These people typically watch too much TV and movies, don't live in reality, or feel isolated from it, and don't really care about whether or not the conspiracy is true, but rather like the idea that it could be.

3. Cynical People believe in the worst of everything. These people are truly sad and pathetic. They make connections where none exist because they insist that powers that be have a plan. They can't accept some things just happen. They don't trust governments, companies and most people. They find anything to confirm their beliefs, which is often more conspiracy "theories."

All these groups are taken in by the people WHO MAKE MONEY off them. Booksellers, filmmakers, website owners, people that hold seminars. These people are often failures in other professions (e.g. L. Ron Hubbard, David Icke).

Honestly, anyone can spin a good story, but why accept something as truth without knowledge and research? Everyone claims that Freemasonry is a giant NWO machine, but I know for a fact that it isn't one. Being a member myself, I can state with 100% certainty what the symbols mean. We use the Holy Bible in our meetings, not some Devil book. We don't worship. Most of our meetings are quite boring, and all we do is plan community service events or veteran events.

I guess it's true, ignorance is bliss... As Bush's character on South Park said, "25% of Americans are retards." And as I've added in the past, the number represents the global population too. But it seems ATS, where I didn't have the NWO conversation above, is 99% retarded.

End rant.

[iceniner]

YES.

I can't stand them either. And I've done quite a bit of observational study of these people, on the Alex Jones forums. The funny thing is, many of them are intelligent, so these issues they have amount to a sort of cognitive slip: there is something so appealing to them about sinister plots that they accept the idea of the plot, no matter how convoluted, over easier and far simpler explanations. They do so without applying any critical thinking whatsoever.

Then they argue with people who DO have critical thinking ability. If you have the gall to tell them that their fantasies aren't realistic, they will often get angry and call you a government shill.

I do think there were a number of very peculiar things about 911. There have been a number of sinister government conspiracies in the past, and there probably still are. But that doesn't mean that the US is intentionally destabilizing countries a short distance from our shores. It doesn't mean that FEMA is building concentration camps (maybe they are, maybe they aren't.) It doesn't mean that the health establishment is trying to kill us off in one way or another.

I really don't know what the problem is with these people. I wish I did because they annoy the living hell out of me.

[Æhµ]

I'll have you know the Rothschilds and Bilderburgers have worked with the Skull and Bones society and the Freemasons to hide ET technology in a D.U.M.B. (Deep Underground Military Base) beneath the Denver International Airport, and after they exterminate us all with their H1N1 virus spread by the CIA as Chemtrails from Jetliners, I'll be the first one to say "told you so".

By the way you might think I'm being facetious, but this isn't that far from what some conspiracy theorists think, if I were to post this on ATS, I'd get at least 500 flags and stars, LOL.

I will say that the official story behind 911 stinks, now there lies a real conspiracy.

[.VX]

I actually agree with ?h?. Yeah, I'm not inconsistent, I'm just "evolving".

[Raverous]

There are a lot of people on ATS right now who have their mouths firmly glued onto Obama's cock. I can't even be over there for more then a few minutes without starting to feel rage over the dumb fuckers. It doesn't matter what you say they'll say back to you LALALALALALA! YOU'RE JUST A RACIST REDNECK LOL! MORE CUM PLEASE MR OBAMA!

[iceniner]

What specifically are you angry about, Raverous?

What's ATS?

[thief]

ATS = http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

[NINEBREAKER]

ATS = http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

that place is funny as hell. almost as funny as the prisonplanet forum.

i do research on conspiracy on a regular basis. i find it interesting but the majority of the things i research i beleive only 1/2 of the story is actually presented and the people presenting it are narrowminded to the point where if it dosnt go by their half baked wisdom its false.

however it is interesting. some of it is funny too. like the one about al gore being a reptilian.(lizard man that can shapeshift)

with the advent of the internet came many more conspiracy nuts.

i will admit much of the alien consiracy about the orgins and acient civilizations is amazing.

[eOs]

Any of you guys into austrian economics? mises.org

Anyway, great piece on the matter. http://mises.org/daily/2809

Anytime that a hard-nosed analysis is put forth of who our rulers are, of how their political and economic interests interlock, it is invariably denounced by Establishment liberals and conservatives (and even by many libertarians) as a "conspiracy theory of history," "paranoid," "economic determinist," and even "Marxist." These smear labels are applied across the board, even though such realistic analyses can be, and have been, made from any and all parts of the economic spectrum, from the John Birch Society to the Communist Party. The most common label is "conspiracy theorist," almost always leveled as a hostile epithet rather than adopted by the "conspiracy theorist" himself.

It is no wonder that usually these realistic analyses are spelled out by various "extremists" who are outside the Establishment consensus. For it is vital to the continued rule of the State apparatus that it have legitimacy and even sanctity in the eyes of the public, and it is vital to that sanctity that our politicians and bureaucrats be deemed to be disembodied spirits solely devoted to the "public good." Once let the cat out of the bag that these spirits are all too often grounded in the solid earth of advancing a set of economic interests through use of the State, and the basic mystique of government begins to collapse.

Let us take an easy example. Suppose we find that Congress has passed a law raising the steel tariff or imposing import quotas on steel? Surely only a moron will fail to realize that the tariff or quota was passed at the behest of lobbyists from the domestic steel industry, anxious to keep out efficient foreign competitors. No one would level a charge of "conspiracy theorist" against such a conclusion. But what the conspiracy theorist is doing is simply to extend his analysis to more complex measures of government: say, to public works projects, the establishment of the ICC, the creation of the Federal Reserve System, or the entry of the United States into a war. In each of these cases, the conspiracy theorist asks himself the question cui bono? Who benefits from this measure? If he finds that Measure A benefits X and Y, his next step is to investigate the hypothesis: did X and Y in fact lobby or exert pressure for the passage of Measure A? In short, did X and Y realize that they would benefit and act accordingly?

Far from being a paranoid or a determinist, the conspiracy analyst is a praxeologist; that is, he believes that people act purposively, that they make conscious choices to employ means in order to arrive at goals. Hence, if a steel tariff is passed, he assumes that the steel industry lobbied for it; if a public works project is created, he hypothesizes that it was promoted by an alliance of construction firms and unions who enjoyed public works contracts, and bureaucrats who expanded their jobs and incomes. It is the opponents of "conspiracy" analysis who profess to believe that all events — at least in government —are random and unplanned, and that therefore people do not engage in purposive choice and planning.

There are, of course, good conspiracy analysts and bad conspiracy analysts, just as there are good and bad historians or practitioners of any discipline. The bad conspiracy analyst tends to make two kinds of mistakes, which indeed leave him open to the Establishment charge of "paranoia." First, he stops with the cui bono; if measure A benefits X and Y, he simply concludes that therefore X and Y were responsible. He fails to realize that this is just a hypothesis, and must be verified by finding out whether or not X and Y really did so. (Perhaps the wackiest example of this was the British journalist Douglas Reed who, seeing that the result of Hitler's policies was the destruction of Germany, concluded, without further evidence, that therefore Hitler was a conscious agent of external forces who deliberately set out to ruin Germany.) Secondly, the bad conspiracy analyst seems to have a compulsion to wrap up all the conspiracies, all the bad guy power blocs, into one giant conspiracy. Instead of seeing that there are several power blocs trying to gain control of government, sometimes in conflict and sometimes in alliance, he has to assume — again without evidence — that a small group of men controls them all, and only seems to send them into conflict.

These reflections are prompted by the almost blatant fact — so blatant as to be remarked on by the major newsweeklies — that virtually the entire top leadership of the new Carter administration, from Carter and Mondale on down, are members of the small, semisecret Trilateral Commission, founded by David Rockefeller in 1973 to propose policies for the United States, Western Europe, and Japan, and/or members of the board of the Rockefeller Foundation. The rest are tied in with Atlanta corporate interests, and especially the Coca-Cola Company, Georgia's major corporation.

Well, how do we look at all this? Do we say that David Rockefeller's prodigious efforts on behalf of certain statist public policies are merely a reflection of unfocused altruism? Or is there pursuit of economic interest involved? Was Jimmy Carter named a member of the Trilateral Commission as soon as it was founded because Rockefeller and the others wanted to hear the wisdom of an obscure Georgia governor? Or was he plucked out of obscurity and made President by their support? Was J. Paul Austin, head of Coca-Cola, an early supporter of Jimmy Carter merely out of concern for the common good? Were all the Trilateralists and Rockefeller Foundation and Coca-Cola people chosen by Carter simply because he felt that they were the ablest possible people for the job? If so, it's a coincidence that boggles the mind. Or are there more sinister political-economic interests involved? I submit that the naïfs who stubbornly refuse to examine the interplay of political and economic interest in government are tossing away an essential tool for analyzing the world in which we live.

[odin_dax]

Great post, eOs. No doubt, sometimes there are inner workings, but I wouldn't call such back scratching a conspiracy.
As far as what prompted this thread, those people at ATS are complete idiots and base nothing on fact at all. For example, freemasonry. As a Mason myself, I know for a fact we're not involved in conspiracies. All our "secrets" are easily discovered by a quick search on Google. We're not a secret society, we're a society with secrets, and anyone who is interested can join and discover our "secrets." Since there's absolutely no proof of lizard people controlling the world, I don't know why people at ATS believe such nonsense.
These subjects are the kind I was referring to, not business dealings and power struggles. Such things are not rare. They've happened every day since the dawn of man. People at ATS are cynics. There's no place in the world for such people. Intelligence and wisdom don't come from blindly believing in the opposite.
But it always puzzles me how people claim to know what secret societies are up to without being a member. David Icke, anyone? How does a failure in everything but fictional paranoia know anything about lizard people aliens, Trilateral meeting details and Masons? In seems more to me like he is a member of some group hired to spread disinformation, much like the CIA did in the 40's and 50's with aliens and UFO's to cover up possible USSR technological tests on new aircraft and spy weapons.
I think the host of Coast to Coast is a spook too.

[iceniner]

This is a critical thinking thing.

I've talked at length to a number of these people, who I'm quite sure hang out on Above Top Secret. They are unable to form coherent logic chains. In other words, their ideas of cause and effect seem to be screwed up.

My bet is that a lot of these people are borderline paranoids or possibly even borderline schizophrenics, in a quiet way. For some reason explanations that involve sinister plots are much more attractive to them than simpler, more likely explanations.

I know a guy who claims that he was talking about the idea of sprayable salad dressing on the phone, and then several years later a company came out with sprayable salad dressing.

The conclusion? The government was listening in on his phone conversations. This implies not only a shadowy conspiracy, but also that he is enough of a genius to warrant the undivided attention of a surveillance organization. This is only one example of many such things with that guy. He's basically completely insane, but can somehow hold down a job and live a mostly normal life.

What's really fun is when people like this get hold of automatic weapons.

[eOs]

This is a critical thinking thing.

I've talked at length to a number of these people, who I'm quite sure hang out on Above Top Secret. They are unable to form coherent logic chains. In other words, their ideas of cause and effect seem to be screwed up.

My bet is that a lot of these people are borderline paranoids or possibly even borderline schizophrenics, in a quiet way. For some reason explanations that involve sinister plots are much more attractive to them than simpler, more likely explanations.

I know a guy who claims that he was talking about the idea of sprayable salad dressing on the phone, and then several years later a company came out with sprayable salad dressing.

The conclusion? The government was listening in on his phone conversations. This implies not only a shadowy conspiracy, but also that he is enough of a genius to warrant the undivided attention of a surveillance organization. This is only one example of many such things with that guy. He's basically completely insane, but can somehow hold down a job and live a mostly normal life.

What's really fun is when people like this get hold of automatic weapons.


I've seem to come to the same conclusions about these types of people, and I would love to see some type of study on their home life, how they were raised, if they were abused in any way as children, etc, --maybe their inability to form these types of logic chains has something to do with it, or maybe its root simply lies in their poor critical thinking skills as a result of poor education.

[odin_dax]

Perhaps we should all go over there and have some fun...

[thief]

The problem is that some conspiracy theory’s are correct and not theory’s at all and some are just outright nuts... people knew/know that it's impossible to stop "conspiracy nuts" from getting nuggets of gold at times and worried about the truth coming out... so... if you cant beat them, join them.

Create the biggest load of bullshit stories your fingers will let you type and after time people cant tell the bullshit from the real stuff and the real stuff becomes mixed in with the nut jobs and it becomes hard to tell one from another.

End.

[eOs]

You want to know what's scarier than these conspiracy theorists?

http://labvirus.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/ssrn-id1084585.pdf

^Cass Sunstein, one of the more notorious obama administration members wrote the above about the "solutions" that need to be taken to "correct" these ideas and people.

II. Governmental Responses
What can government do about conspiracy theories? Among the things it can do,
what should it do? We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1)
Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind
of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government
might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy
theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in
counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such
parties, encouraging them to help. Each instrument has a distinctive set of potential
effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions.
However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration
of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5).

^Cass Sunstein, folks.....

[odin_dax]

The problem is that some conspiracy theory’s are correct and not theory’s at all and some are just outright nuts... people knew/know that it's impossible to stop "conspiracy nuts" from getting nuggets of gold at times and worried about the truth coming out... so... if you cant beat them, join them.

Create the biggest load of bullshit stories your fingers will let you type and after time people cant tell the bullshit from the real stuff and the real stuff becomes mixed in with the nut jobs and it becomes hard to tell one from another.

End.

Well, I'm sure if people are cynical enough to disbelieve stories given to them at face value, one "conspiracy" derived from disbelief is bound to be correct. Still, I think it's a lot easier to discern plausible from ludicrous on many sites like ATS. Something like the US government being involved in 9-11 sounds plausible. Lizard men from space posing as humans for silent control sounds ludicrous.

I have a very narrow definition of "conspiracy" in this context. I don't consider business collusion a conspiracy anymore than business dealings in general.

*Note: I don't buy into the US/9-11 conspiracy, just saying it's a plausible, realistic sounding theory, unlike lizard people.

[Æhµ]

After reading your post from the 3rd e0s I couldn't help but think of Oliver Stone, specifically his movie "JFK". He definitely fits the description of a "bad" conspiracy theorist, as he pretty well threw in every conspiracy angle known regarding JFK's assassination into that movie.

That's also the problem with so many of the conspiracies regarding "New World Order" topics, it's that most of them would mean a conspiracy of massive proportions, involving just about every VIP on the planet. I don't doubt that there are collusion's taking place between some of the mega-banks of the world, but I rather doubt they involve blood-lines stretching back to the time of Christ.

As a forum for conspiracy's, ATS isn't so bad, at least it's a well-run site, people just need to engage in critical thinking before accepting someone's theory. On the other hand, if you want bat-shit crazy, go to Alex Jones / Prison Planet.

Some other conspiracy sites:

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/forums.html - ancient & hidden histories
http://www.philipcoppens.com/ - ancient & hidden histories
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/ - a lot like ATS
http://www.allempires.net/
http://www.puppstheories.com/forum/index.php - this site is actually a lot of fun reading

the ultimate conspiracy site: Coast to Coast AM - listen to it on the radio late nights
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

For the skeptics: James Randi's forum
http://forums.randi.org/

[odin_dax]

Yes, but George Noorey is a disinformation CIA spook.

The US military sells drugs, btw.

I love Randi...

[iceniner]

You really like James Randi?

[Æhµ]

Let me ask me ask everyone this; what do you feel to be among the more ludicrous conspiracies that adherent's foam at the mouth to defend? If you tell a 9-11 "truther" it was just a terrorist attack they'll come back at you with some pretty sound and detailed information that the US government and/or Mossad were involved. Tell a "birther" Obama was born in Hawaii and they'll go nuts. Atlantis? ET's? Bigfoot?

To me, the belief in "ET's" is completely unfounded. Zacharia Sitchin and Erik Von Daniken are just selling books and seeing ET's in every rock carving made by ancient man. But try to rationalize with believer's in ET's and they'll use every twist of logic imaginable or every "sighting" (99% of which are fake) to defend their position. I happen to think ET/Alien sightings are one of the most faked/hoaxed non-events of our times.

[thief]

I have seen a strange light in the sky once. Me and two of my friends. Nobody came down and shook our hands but it wasn't normal... lets put it like that.

[iceniner]

To me, the belief in "ET's" is completely unfounded. Zacharia Sitchin and Erik Von Daniken are just selling books
Yes, they're completely insane.

I'd have to say religion in general, however. Von Daniken at least posits events that are theoretically physically possible.

People believe in all manner of insane religious bullshit for no reason at all and they do all manner of crazy shit because of it.

[Th0r]

I have seen a strange light in the sky once. Me and two of my friends. Nobody came down and shook our hands but it wasn't normal... lets put it like that.

There must be something out there.

The true physical size of space is huge, incomprehensibly so, even ignoring things such as dimensions and what have you. In that space there must be other forms of life and something extra-terrestrial is causing the UFO sightings. There have been too many for it to be a load of BS or examples of top secret Skunkworks projects.

There's no conspiracy behind it, we as a collective don't truly know.

[iceniner]

In that space there must be other forms of life and something extra-terrestrial is causing the UFO sightings.

There must be something out there but we have no evidence at all that anything extra-terrestrial is causing the sightings.

While there "must" be something out there based on the Drake equations, based on the results of radiotelescope and the SETI project the galaxy is looking like a very empty place.

[thief]

the galaxy is looking like a very empty place

Ours yes... what about the others?

[Æhµ]

Sure there's a theoretical possibility that intelligent life exists on other planets - but as a conspiracy theory offered by Sitchin and Daniken, they'd have us believe ET's came to Earth and set themselves up as Gods, who became known as the "Annunaki" or "Nephelim" (among other names). Sitchin really goes out there with theories that these Annunaki came to Earth and created man as a slave race to mine gold to help their dieing planet. It just get's weirder from there. It's almost, but not quite, as bad an alien theory as Scientology.

My personal belief is that the interstellar gulf is just to vast to be crossed by any simple means, and IF alien life manages that feat they'll arrive in such a way there will be no doubt they're here. None of this cattle mutilation/crop circle/cat-and-mouse nonsense.

[iceniner]

Aehu then there's the other guy, Icke, who claims that the world is run by lizard people. He makes Sitchin look normal.

My personal belief is that the interstellar gulf is just to vast to be crossed by any simple means, and IF alien life manages that feat they'll arrive in such a way there will be no doubt they're here. None of this cattle mutilation/crop circle/cat-and-mouse nonsense.
QFT. We'll just wake up one day and wonder where the oxygen is, and that will be that.

[odin_dax]

You really like James Randi?

Not really. I just like to see him argue with Sylvia Brown.

[odin_dax]

There must be something out there but we have no evidence at all that anything extra-terrestrial is causing the sightings.

While there "must" be something out there based on the Drake equations, based on the results of radiotelescope and the SETI project the galaxy is looking like a very empty place.

It's interesting you say that. I live minutes from Stanford and UC Berkeley, and a few voices have made it clear that we're not alone in the universe. Whether or not the alien civilization is more advanced is another matter, and whether or not they possess the technology to come here is definitely an issue of high skepticism.

I remember a time when some people thought no other planets existed outside our solar system... Ah, progress.

[iceniner]

a few voices have made it clear that we're not alone in the universe.

Who specifically has said that, and on what basis?

I do think it's vanishingly unlikely that we're alone. For one thing, I think that the universe is infinite in size and that time had no beginning, in other words that it's infinite in time as well. But there isn't any evidence for life on other planets that I'm aware of.

I know some people from the Bay Area too. Many of them believe all manner of crazy shit, and I mean CRAZY shit. It's home to some of the most brilliant scientists around but it's also home to a lot of bullshit.

[Æhµ]

I completely forgot about Icke. Lizard people theories just won't die, it's as absurd as "hollow earth" theories.
At least ET's are theoretically possible, but stuff like "hollow earth", I wouldn't know how to begin to argue with someone that believes in that.

I'll tell you another conspiracy theory that had me hooked for a while, I mean I actually believed it, was the whole Nazi saucer tech, aka the "Hanbau" saucers. I'm ashamed to admit I once believed the Nazi's developed a massive saucer that utilized some sort of Tesla tech right at the end of the war and that these saucers were what RAF pilots reported seeing as gremlins and fireballs. Then after the fall of Germany the remaining Nazis scooped up all this technology and went to live underground in the arctic circle (NeuSchwabanland) with their saucers and would occasionally come out to buzz our fighter jets. Before leaving to build their moon base. Oh. and Admiral Byrd led a US war fleet to attack their arctic base in 1948. Did I mention I used to smoke crack? That's still a ridiculously popular theory, especially on ATS.

After careful consideration (and quitting the pipe) I realized that was one of the most contrived and bullshit conspiracies out there.

[thief]

Well Odin, been a mason you belive in "The Grand Architect" a higer entity that created everything and is watching everything. ET's cant be so far out of your thought process.

[iceniner]

Aehu did you believe in Vril energy?

What you're talking about is reasonable compared to a lot of the "nazi science."

Ever heard of the Nazi Bell?

[odin_dax]

Who specifically has said that, and on what basis?

I do think it's vanishingly unlikely that we're alone. For one thing, I think that the universe is infinite in size and that time had no beginning, in other words that it's infinite in time as well. But there isn't any evidence for life on other planets that I'm aware of.

I know some people from the Bay Area too. Many of them believe all manner of crazy shit, and I mean CRAZY shit. It's home to some of the most brilliant scientists around but it's also home to a lot of bullshit.

Much to my dismay, I don't remember their names. If I see them again, I will let you know. They were employees of aforementioned universities as researchers and professors. In the meantime, feel free to remain skeptical.

Yeah, I know... Lot of nut jobs. Nothing out of San Francisco really makes a whole lot sense.

[iceniner]

See, even the professors at Berkeley are acid casualties. They've bought into a whole bunch of quantum flapdoodle nonsense.

I'd agree that there must be alien life given the size of the universe-- infinite if I'm right, and just look at the new Hubble images of hundreds of thousands of galaxies larger than ours. And the stuff that looks dark, well, that's only dark matter, otherwise the entire sky would be blindingly white with the light of unimaginably ancient galaxies.

But where's the evidence? When I hear a professor say something I expect there to be some proof forthcoming.

[Æhµ]

Aehu did you believe in Vril energy?

What you're talking about is reasonable compared to a lot of the "nazi science."

Ever heard of the Nazi Bell?

I didn't believe in "vril" energy, but thought that scientists in Germany had uncovered some inherent property of electromagnetism in mercury as a part of research into "vril" energy. The concept of Vril came from a work of fiction popular in the late 1800's in Germany that speculated about such a source of energy, that apparently led to a number of casual research societies in Germany that met to discuss their ideas. These sort of "research societies" were real popular in Germany at the time, just like glider clubs of that era. Allegedly, Von Braun was a member of one of these Vril societies. That's about where I started to see what a crock all the "Haunebu" nonsense really was. One of the chief proponents of the "Nazi Saucer" conspiracy (forget his name) claimed that Von Braun took up Tesla's hidden technology which was supposedly taken to Germany prior to the outbreak of war where it fell into Nazi hands. Von Braun was then supposed to have come to the USA to work with American scientists on Vril and Haunebu tech prior to returning to Nazi Germany at outbreak of war. (Had to fix the spelling of "Haunebu")

I knew such a theory was a farce as Von Braun's life is well documented, but of course conspiracy theorists insist he had a hidden role not documented. But that still begs a most important question - If Von Braun knew of, and worked on, Vril, Hanbau, or Nazi Bell tech then why for the love of god would he have gone back to crude rocketry for the moon mission? He would never have reverted to an earlier or cruder tech having been exposed to such advanced science.

The Nazi Bell is another one of those conspiracies that won't die - maybe there's some truth to it? What exactly were Germans attempting to do with such a construction? My current opinion is that either we have no idea what this actually is (maybe a form of rocket stabilizer? Gyroscopic?) It could be we let our imaginations run away with us and picture this as some ultimate anti-grav device when it's purpose may have been far simpler. Nazi Germany had shortages of many precious metals and gases so perhaps the Bell was something that would not have normally been constructed using mercury (although that in itself was in short supply since it's used in ammunition). Maybe it was just a desperate Nazi nut who made some pie-in-the-sky wonder weapon that obviously never worked. We see it and we think "good god its anti-gravity" which leads us to think "Nazis must now be living on the moon".

I think this conspiracy theory got popular in the 70's and a lot of fake photos of Haunebu saucers came out around then. If you look at them, most have a saucer in front of or behind a car historically correct for that period. But to me they look like forced perspective images. A lot of images of flying Haunebu were published by the "Weekly World News" a tabloid paper, so it's a lot like the "Batboy", one tabloids recurring series that only they seem to have the ability to get ahold of.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8022/vril6vp3.jpg

Here are some Haunebu topics on ATS:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread375518/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread496181/pg1

Keep in mind that in the 70's UFO's theories got insanely popular. Put a picture of a UFO, even a Nazi one, on the cover of your magazine and laugh yourself all the way to the bank.

By the way the name of that author was George Adamski, I believe, he is one of the largest proponents of Nazi UFO theories. He even claims that as a result of this saucer tech Nazis were able to escape to their hidden Arctic base, but if even that was true, surely by now we would have uncovered it.

All in all, Nazi Saucers is a really deep topic, when you first start looking into it, it's easy to get sucked into it because it sounds plausible, and there are seemingly so many irrefutable photos and even war time movies to back up the theory. But eventually your rational mind will kick in and start asking questions and that's where things start looking like someone(s) is having a really good laugh at our gullibility.

[odin_dax]

I didn't believe in "vril" energy, but thought that scientists in Germany had uncovered some inherent property of electromagnetism in mercury as a part of research into "vril" energy. The concept of Vril came from a work of fiction popular in the late 1800's in Germany that speculated about such a source of energy, that apparently led to a number of casual research societies in Germany that met to discuss their ideas. These sort of "research societies" were real popular in Germany at the time, just like glider clubs of that era. Allegedly, Von Braun was a member of one of these Vril societies. That's about where I started to see what a crock all the "Haunebu" nonsense really was. One of the chief proponents of the "Nazi Saucer" conspiracy (forget his name) claimed that Von Braun took up Tesla's hidden technology which was supposedly taken to Germany prior to the outbreak of war where it fell into Nazi hands. Von Braun was then supposed to have come to the USA to work with American scientists on Vril and Haunebu tech prior to returning to Nazi Germany at outbreak of war. (Had to fix the spelling of "Haunebu")

I knew such a theory was a farce as Von Braun's life is well documented, but of course conspiracy theorists insist he had a hidden role not documented. But that still begs a most important question - If Von Braun knew of, and worked on, Vril, Hanbau, or Nazi Bell tech then why for the love of god would he have gone back to crude rocketry for the moon mission? He would never have reverted to an earlier or cruder tech having been exposed to such advanced science.

The Nazi Bell is another one of those conspiracies that won't die - maybe there's some truth to it? What exactly were Germans attempting to do with such a construction? My current opinion is that either we have no idea what this actually is (maybe a form of rocket stabilizer? Gyroscopic?) It could be we let our imaginations run away with us and picture this as some ultimate anti-grav device when it's purpose may have been far simpler. Nazi Germany had shortages of many precious metals and gases so perhaps the Bell was something that would not have normally been constructed using mercury (although that in itself was in short supply since it's used in ammunition). Maybe it was just a desperate Nazi nut who made some pie-in-the-sky wonder weapon that obviously never worked. We see it and we think "good god its anti-gravity" which leads us to think "Nazis must now be living on the moon".

I think this conspiracy theory got popular in the 70's and a lot of fake photos of Haunebu saucers came out around then. If you look at them, most have a saucer in front of or behind a car historically correct for that period. But to me they look like forced perspective images. A lot of images of flying Haunebu were published by the "Weekly World News" a tabloid paper, so it's a lot like the "Batboy", one tabloids recurring series that only they seem to have the ability to get ahold of.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8022/vril6vp3.jpg

Here are some Haunebu topics on ATS:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread375518/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread496181/pg1

Keep in mind that in the 70's UFO's theories got insanely popular. Put a picture of a UFO, even a Nazi one, on the cover of your magazine and laugh yourself all the way to the bank.

By the way the name of that author was George Adamski, I believe, he is one of the largest proponents of Nazi UFO theories. He even claims that as a result of this saucer tech Nazis were able to escape to their hidden Arctic base, but if even that was true, surely by now we would have uncovered it.

All in all, Nazi Saucers is a really deep topic, when you first start looking into it, it's easy to get sucked into it because it sounds plausible, and there are seemingly so many irrefutable photos and even war time movies to back up the theory. But eventually your rational mind will kick in and start asking questions and that's where things start looking like someone(s) is having a really good laugh at our gullibility.

As far as I remember, the German "UFO" technology fell into Russian hands. It's well known that the first UFO group was headed by the CIA (can't remember the name offhand). Their only purpose was to claim any Russian "UFO" was an alien spacecraft. In other words, disinformation. Back in those days, the search and imagination of aliens was outrageously extreme, even by today's standards.

I don't know many details on the USA's "UFO" project(s), but I'm sure they researched it.

[iceniner]

Good call on Batboy. Also Mothman. Ever heard of the Shaver Mysteries?

[Th0r]

Wasn't Die Glocke first heard of in 2000 when Igor Witkowski wrote a book on it?

Then people started crawling out of the woodwork claiming it had crashed in Pennsylvania in the sixties/seventies and it was in an air base in Ohio. :saroll:

Then people started claiming Die Glocke was responsible for the Foo Fighter sightings of WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

All in all, Nazi Saucers is a really deep topic, when you first start looking into it, it's easy to get sucked into it because it sounds plausible, and there are seemingly so many irrefutable photos and even war time movies to back up the theory. But eventually your rational mind will kick in and start asking questions and that's where things start looking like someone(s) is having a really good laugh at our gullibility.

I agree with your last point.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2301623855480311871#

This video is very convincing on the subject, then you start to put two and two together.

[iceniner]

Someone needs to tell me how the World Trade Center was anything other than a controlled demolition.

My personal opinion there is that all those tall buildings are "wired for sound" to minimize the collapse footprint in the event of terrorist attacks and natural disasters. They gave people 20 minutes to get out and then they pulled it.

Building 7 in particular was just ridiculous. Steel frame buildings don't just collapse from anything other than giant structural damage. Even the idea that the buildings would collapse from plane impacts is ridiculous-- the Building 7 collapse is downright unbelievable and casts the rest of the story into extreme doubt.

The motivations for the lie are something different entirely, though. My bet is that they pulled the buildings because of the risk of a sideways tip and that they didn't want to deal with the political fallout.

[Æhµ]

The official story behind 9-11 is such a sham. In fact iceniner you should open a new thread just for that topic here at Rorta. So many of the conspiracy web sites have buried the topic under so many cockamamie conspiracy angles it's impossible to sort the facts from the fictions.

[eOs]

Someone needs to tell me how the World Trade Center was anything other than a controlled demolition.

My personal opinion there is that all those tall buildings are "wired for sound" to minimize the collapse footprint in the event of terrorist attacks and natural disasters. They gave people 20 minutes to get out and then they pulled it.

Building 7 in particular was just ridiculous. Steel frame buildings don't just collapse from anything other than giant structural damage. Even the idea that the buildings would collapse from plane impacts is ridiculous-- the Building 7 collapse is downright unbelievable and casts the rest of the story into extreme doubt.

The motivations for the lie are something different entirely, though. My bet is that they pulled the buildings because of the risk of a sideways tip and that they didn't want to deal with the political fallout.

I would have to agree 100%. The fact that building 7 collapsed into its own footprint, along with the other 2 buildings, all at nearly free fall speed, is enough proof, in my book to cast the entire event into extreme doubt. This along with the hundreds of other "coincidences" that occurred make it even more considerable.

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