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View Full Version : Social Justice and the Death Penalty.


Tricho
2nd February 2010, 04:29 AM
For the benefit of humanity some people have to die I believe. Though not just random people. I believe that for the good of the community and humanity in general. Any and all life sentenced and death sentenced criminals should be executed and if it costs to much we are doing it wrong. People like Erick Smith and Karla Holmolka. Eric Smith is a 28 year old Serial Killer from upstate new york who has the possibility of getting out since he was a minor when he committed his crimes and in Canada Karla Holmolka took part in the Ken and Barbie murders yet she walks free to this very day living and breathing.


I think that people like these it should be the very benefit of humanity that people like that are killed. Why waste money with a life sentence for a murder or letting them off on stupid laws. When the cops or someone else can just take him to a hole shot the murderer in the face and then bury him with a little rock that says "Name" and that is it. I mean whats the point of having a massive sprawling prison system?

That fact that people can kill people and the possibility is only about ten years. That is completely ridiculous. Yet criminals who sell drugs fill up prisons and jails.


What I am saying all who receive life or death should just be quickly executed. Instead of wasting time and effort to house these people for the rest of their lives and feeding them and so on. Why not just kill them all at one time. Like right now take every lifer in prison or on death row and kill them. I bet the world would be a million times a better place and that would be a lot of money saved that would have been other wise wasted on some scumbag murderer or rapist or something. I mean yeah sure there is appeals but most in prison for murder or whatever usually aren't there for not committing the crime. So maybe murdering an innocent once and a while will happen; MAYBE. Though in the long run the world will be a better place. Think about it all the rapists and murderers who get shorter sentences or the guys in prison just being taken out to the pasture so to speak. We would be saving money, resources and for a box of twenty five shotgun shells at the local store is like 10 bucks. I don't see how it costs more seriously.


That is twenty five dead prisoners with one shotgun. That would take maybe like 2 minutes to accomplish which would otherwise be countless years of the criminal living while the family feels the wounds deep inside forever. While the psycho gets to sit in his cell like the scum he is. With the state paying for him. Coming out of citizens tax money. Sometimes they get jobs inside the prisons which leads to a more comfortable life for them. Like extra food or something. Though seriously why waste anything on these people other than a box of shells? In my opinion humanity in general would benefit. I just think we give no ground with criminals. As they are scum.

I know it is a completely twisted set of morals that in a sense makes you just as bad. Though I'm just saying that serial killers and serial rapists are so maladaptive that nothing good could ever come of them. Some kid named Jason Massey was a would be serial killer. Whos entire goal in life he said and wrote down was to be a Serial Killer. That was his main life goal. What good could ever come of a person whos main life goal is to end lives? Except maybe studying how they operate to more easily identify them when they do arise. Which does give benefits to the police but many of them lie so much its kind of pointless. The fact how much criminals like that actually lie so much is kind of pathetic really. I mean people who are like 100% proven to be criminals competely deny it until their graves.


So that does sound kind of crazy at the end its like wow really. Though think what good would ever come; I mean seriously ever. All the hundreds of thousands maybe millions of dollars to house all these types of people would also be saved and would be able to help the local communities and countries as well. Like think about the money that could go into other things. Like schools or job creation.


No psychopathic criminal can be reformed ever. It is exactly that type of thinking that they take advantage of. This kid Eric Smith I just talked about is saying hes reformed. Yet when he was just a thirteen year old boy. He bashed a kids head in with a forty pound rock after choking him and then shoved a stick up the kids butt and then destroyed the kids cloths and hit him with some rocks and the list goes on. Though the most important thing is that he positioned the body in such a way that is striking and says a lot. He moved the rocks from the kids body and then took his right shoe and placed it next to his left hand and then took his left shoe and placed it next to his right hand.

He has a possibility for release into society because he has people on his side. Like Doctors and Lawyers; Though yeah I may not be as smart as a Doctor or a Lawyer but everybody has a price to say whatever you want them to say. Though People like Ted Bundy or other criminals say when they talk to Doctors they try as hard as they can to lie in order to "test" their ability to lie to people. No Psychopathic murderer or rapist has a chance for reform. They never ever do. Edmund Kemper a great example of what I am talking about. The same exact situation except he shot his grand parents to death. After he got released from juvenile prison he got out and killed five women and then killed his mother to absolutely nobodies surprise but the people who thought they he was "reformed"

It is my opinion that a person who has their goals set at killing in prison should be able to ever get out let alone be left alive at all.


In Canada a woman named Karla Holmolka is walking around who with her husband helped kill 3 people. One of them being her sister. That is how much she cared about people. Apparently in a conversation between her and Paul Bernardo he told her he was a rapist and she apparently thought that was "cool". She is allowed to walk around freely in the world; well really only Canada but you get the picture. These people have horrible characters.


I'm not advocating horrible and spotty investigations. I'm just saying the same thing why waste resources on these people to continue living when they have horribly effected society in such a way. Let the courts and the cops do their jobs yes but seriously why let these people live when they would for sh*ts and giggles or to feel powerful they go out and kill a woman or go rape some woman cause they like the idea of sexually abusing a person. It is such a horrible character stand point. I mean it definitely won't stop these people from killing. Though it will stop the other killers or rapists who do it for other reasons but really aren't killers or rapists at heart but are still horrible all the same. In my opinion Social justice needs to be carried out ruthlessly and order needs to be up held.

Cause currently right now it costs the state of California sixty three million dollars annually and about 90,000 dollars for each inmate on death row. That is more than the average wage made by the average citizen in the state of California. It would cost eleven million dollars to house each death row inmate at San Quentin for the rest of there lives; currently how ever that is as of December 2008 about 630 people awaiting execution from the State of California. So six hundred and thirty people multiplied by eleven millions equals six billion nine hundred and thirty million dollars to keep alive some of the worst Serial Killers California has to offer; Randy Kraft a Serial Killer of sixteen confirmed victims and is still a suspect in about fifty other cold cases through out the state of California; Charles Ng who killed upwards of twenty five people and there was an additional fifty pounds of unidentified bones found in and around the bunker where he was staying.


The list goes on and on with different murderers and their victims. The idea though is that why spend sixty million annually to keep said people alive. What I propose is instead of keeping these people alive and keeping them healthy until we give them a light murder and bury them is executing every single one of them. Through the creation of Secret police force created to deal with internal threats and dealing with economic issues through a rifle. Why spend millions if not billions to keep violent sociopaths alive when we can find a light way to execute them that won't turn men into sadists or make them break down. Like a gas chamber or a something. I know that sounds like a Nazi thing. Though let me explain the genius behind it.

If we were to carry out this said plan and repeal laws and make a new police force. There would have to be new laws and methods of execution cause if your constantly shooting people in the head it could change a man and from what I have read about execution squads many men can't handle it, like it or are in between though with a majority towards the extremes of breaking down or loving the idea that they murder people as a job. So it would be a waste of time to execute death row and life imprisonment inmates as their executioners would replace them as the criminals. It would just be making Serial Killers with badges. Basically it'd be like creating the unit out of the guys on the death row.

So a more meniel way would have to be conceived IE the gas chamber though the connentations for such an action are extreme and can carry with them much more mass murder as laws are changed to fit the said idea to rid prisons of violent sociopaths whom we the populace have to pay for. Though like I was saying such an action can quickly spiral out of control and become like Auschwitz or a Gulag under Stalin and this is not the idea behind that. So strict laws about what is constitutional and unconstitutional with this new police force of "Hard Men" whom are able to carry out the act of sending these violent sociopaths to their deaths. Cause such a police force can agrogate control. So there would have to be checks and balances between the new police.

The first law that would have to be changed are cruel and unusual punishment laws. Which currently state life imprisonment is constitutional and valid when in my opinion it is invalid and any person who has committed crimes enough to get life should in fact die cause they gave up their rights to life. They gave up their life outside the wall and why should they get a life on the inside. Where for some they live until ripe old ages. Charles Manson is 75 years old when in fact his life should have ended in 1969. With an already predug grave and a bullet to his head. That would have cost the people of california millions of dollars on trials, appeals and very pointless parole board hearings which will never ever release him ever.

I'm going to list laws and how they should be changed to provide this "New" police force with the power and limitations it would need to be a successful group of "Hard men" and efficient officers of the new law. Article I section 3 should be changed to take away the Senate's power of impeachment and their judgements on any of these matters should be taken away. Section 8 of article one should be changed taking away congresses power to provide militias and to execute the laws of the union; to declare war, to provide a navy and make rules for it, to provide punishment for all counterfitters. Article three of the constitution should be completely wiped from the laws; all three sections of article three should vanish. Amendment five of the bill of rights should be changed completely to fit with the new laws and so should amendment fifteen of the constitution which says on account of race, color or previous conditions. Which in my view "previous" conditions would be criminality.

With the changing of these laws it would enable to the government to create this new police force to save money with the economy and keep America safer. The cost of the entire justice system annually to run prisons is about thirty billion dollars a year. So with each state spending about thirty million of year for death row that would immeasurably save money and could be directed towards other internal threats in the United States like organized crime and criminal street gangs; with these threats inside of the prisons gone. More money can be directed to the other threats that actually oppose the citizens of the USA and most of all the children whom are effected by these criminals and create a vicious cycle only adding to the criminality of certain peoples.

On the economics side of the this New Study Reveals Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution, Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million, Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988, The California Death Penalty System Costs Taxpayers More than $114 Million a Year, California would save $90 million per year if it were to change the death penalty. $78 million of these expenses are occurred at the trial level and would not be reduced by shortening appeals. With reforms to make executions happen immediatly it would reduce costs immensely all accross the board to institute these ideas. It cost far less to use a rifle to execute somebody than it does to keep them alive for twenty years with pointless appeals cases and countless more cases that cost millions upon millions of dollars. It currently cost the state of california 90,000 and the same with the state of Florida.


That means it cost the state of Florida about 900,000 dollars to keep Ted Bundy alive from 1978 until about 1989. Very unfair if you ask me for his thirty plus victims. Ted Bundy even though he was executed twenty years ago he is still a suspect in the disapearance of 12 women who disapeared in the early 70s. Their names are Nancy Baird, Ann Marie Burr, Lynette Culver, Julie Cunningham, Susan Curtis, Georgann Hawkin, Vicki Hollar, Debra Kent, Donna Manson, Denise Oliverson, and Nancy Wilcox. These women had no chance and got no curtoesy from Ted Bundy. He tricked this women into helping him, kidnaped them, murdered them and buried there bodies. Unfortunately he lived long after he killed all those women. His murder of Georgann Hawkins was methodical, cunning, and brutal. He tricked her with a suitcase and a cast. He lured her back to his car and smacked her on the back of the head with a crowbar he kept underneath the car behind the tire and then handcuffed her and drove her to his kill spot on Taylor Mountain; then he raped her and strangled her and cut her head off and kept it as a trophy and to masturbate to her head. Ted kept her head until it rotted out and then he burned it in a fire place and down to the last ash.

Why would a man who finds pleasure in such a perverted activity be kept alive and be allowed to have the folk hero that he is considered. He cared nothing for his victims and never once felt remorse and if he showed it it was a lie. Ted Bundy was a violent sociopath through and through. He was totally consumed with murdering women all the time and was a man who's entire life was devoted to murdering and raping as many women as he possibly could for power and sexual perversion. His sexual perversion was having sex with a girl and making her know he was going to kill her and then keep her head to masturbate to later on. This is my point exactly we should execute this men early on instead of waiting so they can do interviews, books and so on. It would save everybody money, give the families credence to feel better and most of all it would save the government and judicial system millions of dollars annually about four million per death row inmate.

It would be cost effective and more sane in my opinion. It makes absolutely zero sense to keep these men alive for as long as we do. The victims need justice and so does the US economy. I mean the hypocrisy in keeping condemned men alive for as long as we do is almost mind numbing to think about in my opinion especially when most of the men whom are condemned are like Ted Bundy and were motivated to commit violence on a large scale. Nothing massive but ordinary people doing extraordinary violence. Every about keeping them alive is unconstitutional and not right and unsafe for the American populace and humanity in general. I seem to see eye-to-eye on this matter with some. Anyone who intentionally kills someone should suffer the gravest consequences. My proposed swift and cheap method of executing serial murderes seems in a way "fair", however I can see a lot of problems arising from it. Though prison would be less of a burdern on the tax payers, yet worse for the victims' families and friends. There is of course the question of why there are so many murderers running around in America. What difference is there in society that causes this, compared to, say, in Sweden, where the crime rate is one of the lowest in the world? Although I do feel like serial killers should be executed swiftly and left to rot in the gutter. It may cause more problems than solve them in America especially with the right to life movement roaming around and death penalty inmate advocate groups.

Though with guys like Gerard John Schaefer was an American Police Officer and Serial Killer who went to prison. There is no exact number of the crimes he committed they only have proof of him committing two murders and kidnapping two others. He maintained his innocence his entire life until he died. It cost about 200,000 for the state of Florida to house this criminal every year. He also wasted millions of dollars of the state of Florida in order to have constant appeals cases and he sued any person on tv, books or whatever from prison that called him a serial killer. Wasting more money of the state of Florida. He did this constantly until he was murdered about ten years ago. Now all of that money is flowing towards the state of Florida and not Gerard John Schaefer's pathetic existence. This proves my point that sometimes a killing is okay and sometimes actual justice comes with a gun instead of a life sentence in a court of law. Gerard John Schaefer's are not just small instances. There are many people in prisons through out the United States that manipulate state and federal court systems. They actually can continue to do harm and waste money. They like like bugs who eat plants from the inside out and destroy gardens. When they are finally removed and placed inside of a prison. They can still manipulate the outside world from inside and waste precious resources like food, clothing, medal, wood, millions of dollars etc.... The list goes on. So really I think for the benefit of humanity and the world it really would be a better place.

I am advocating mass executions of every single lifer and condemned inmate in prison. I think it could happen and I know this sounds crazy or even criminal. Though out in the world right now some kid hasn't showered in weeks or eaten in days. Money could go to help these children who don't have food or a shower or a place to sleep. Though these scum criminals have a guaranteed bed, three meals a day, a shower and possibly snacks like soups or something. When stuff like this goes on it makes me sick to know that kids are starving and serial killers are guarenteed food every single day of their lives with three meals a day. Life in Prison is the death penalty by another name. It allow supposedly good hearted people to feel good about themselves but in the end it still effectivly ends the life of the person who recieves it. I would argue that life in prison is more cruel then then the death penalty and crueler on the economy and the families of the victims than the criminal. This isn't even about cruelty its about wasted resources that could be better used to feed and help homeless children or regular families who lost there jobs or something. Instead of going to these hardened criminals who would other wise only cause negative things in the society and communities that they live and going around in.

I think a new political party should be formed and play on the fears of the American people against extremists, criminals and Mexican drug cartels and the crappy fumbling of the two party system we have; whilst simultaneously creating a state within a state and by what I mean with that is this said political party will create itself to be like the state so when it gets voted into office these measures could just over take the old way; like a new department of corrections that when it comes to power can just replace the old one and doing this with the police agencies albeit taking them over with a "umbrella" organization not really replacing them and these would include all agencies including the CIA and the NSA which would have to be absorbed into the umbrella organization so they do not cause problems. Doing this with the economy, the environment, ETC.... Have a system created within the party that can easily replace the American government and then disband the Judicial system and replace it with a new one with party loyalists under firm control IE they would have no real power they would just be there to be there. In order for this to happen though it would need real potential it would need widespread support of about 80-90 percent of the actual country itself and the military forces. So then social justice can occur and the American people be saved. Of course would have to build Auschwitz like gas chambers cause on reading about the holocaust it really would the best way for it to occur. I know I talk about the Nazis but this has nothing to do with them at all. It is the most humane way for it to occur in the context that that shooting promotes sadism and lethal injection does as well and would take to long and would need the inclusion of doctors. What would be needed is "hard" men ready for the job to carry out social justice in order to save America.


Then after that a system of both free and private health care would be immediately instituted; the new government would then take over all utilities like electric, water, and so on while letting private business run things like clothing or shoes and stuff like this. Essentially what I am talking about is the only way to save America which in my point of view is heading down a path of destruction. With the horrible abomination culture of American Hip-hop and the promotion of criminality would have to cease immediately cause it in itself promotes criminality. I also think execution for child murderers would be appropriate as well. To prevent having to do so in the future which would be essentially inevitable if you read statistics regarding child and adolescent offenders who committed murder and were tried as minors they all grow up to be career criminals and they would only face the gas sooner or later so earlier is better than later. Then all known criminal gangs such as the Crips, bloods, mafia of all ethnic groups; would be simultaneously raided by special forces and completely and utterly destroyed as threats to national security which they are and if Mexican cartels posed a thread Mexico would have to contain it or face invasion. Which albeit extreme but the only reasonable thing to do. Cause the destruction of criminality is a fight fire with fire; not fire with flowers and stupid rehabilitation that never works. So really I'm actually talking about at least a half million people. That is if Mexico handles their problems and if they movie to south America; hell just take the whole hemisphere if need be. So for Social justice to be carried out I don't know how many would have to actually die. In the need for Justice there is no price and all is needed.

REL0AD
2nd February 2010, 05:06 AM
Nice copy & paste.

Tricho
2nd February 2010, 05:43 AM
I wrote all of that. I didn't steal it. That came from my heart not a stolen post.

iceniner
2nd February 2010, 08:31 AM
In my opinion this is actually far more merciful than the system we have right now.

But part of the reason the system runs so slowly is to allow the chance to appeal and to avoid the execution of innocent people. You also have to keep in mind that having punishments like life in prison allows the cops bargaining power with these scumbags that they wouldn't otherwise have. For some fucked up reason the guys would rather live in prison than have a quick death.

You realize you wrote 16 pages of this? Sure doesn't seem like a healthy obsession to me. But I have to agree with you.

The prison system is totally fucked, totally corrupt. They WANT lifers and deathrow inmates there because of all the jobs they create.

Th0r
2nd February 2010, 08:35 PM
Since I've verified this isn't Copied and Pasted grats on writing such a long piece. I agree with several key things you've said here.

odin_dax
2nd February 2010, 09:34 PM
This essay is long but shit. Poorly organized, poorly written.

You advocate death for those who don't deserve it, you advocate a new political party playing on the fears of Americans (isn't that called terrorism? Didn't the Nazis use that technique?), and you suggest a restructuring of government, poorly suggested too. Nothing would ever pass with 80% of the vote except war.

You're ignorant. You think more like the Nazis day after day. There are a lot of similarities between them and your way of thinking.

If you want to stop crime, the best way is to prevent it. You have no sense of justice. Many people on death row have been found innocent after years. Nothing is always black and white.

Æhµ
3rd February 2010, 02:45 AM
I have no problem executing a guilty murderer immediately after their trial and a review / appeal process (to ensure they truly are guilty), so long as we can be 100% certain they truly are guilty. Lately we've seen a lot of convictions turned over with DNA evidence reviews. That's the reason these convicts sit on death row for so long, it's the appeal process. In America the appeal process for a capital conviction is automatic. It can get dragged out for 15 years. Is that a ridiculous amount of time to be certain that this offender was truly guilty? Does that length of time sitting in a cell waiting to be put to death equal cruel and unusual punishment? Then where's the dividing line between someone truly psychotic and not in their right mind when they do something deranged - do they deserve the death penalty or mental treatment? You have to give anyone, no matter how "guilty" they appear, the benefit of an appeal process to be absolutely sure they are indeed guilty.

I don't think the death penalty is an entirely effective deterrent to crime. Psychotics, which serial killers surely belong, aren't exactly the type to dwell on the consequences to their actions. I do think that those who engage in violent crimes like armed robbery realize that "crossing the line" into murder is going to come at a high price if they get caught, so capital punishment isn't completely ineffective. China will execute you for anything, business-related crime, bribery, and drug smuggling are all capital offenses. But China still has a lot of these types of crime. For that reason I think you can argue capital punishment just doesn't work as a deterrent. However, I still agree that capital punishment should be used simply to "remove" those convicted of heinous crimes from society.

REL0AD
3rd February 2010, 01:13 PM
I wrote all of that. I didn't steal it. That came from my heart not a stolen post.

Appologies.

It proved a nice read.

Tricho
4th February 2010, 05:01 AM
Told ya Reload and thanks every everybody except Odin but you are correct on a few things and its not anything official its more or less a long rant on a forum.

iceniner
4th February 2010, 02:38 PM
All that begs the question: what's the point?

Tricho
5th February 2010, 09:02 PM
All that begs the question: what's the point?

See who agrees with me.

iceniner
6th February 2010, 12:49 AM
I dunno, I think a lot of people would agree with you.

I think there are a lot of arguments on both sides, some of which conflict in strange ways. The first and foremost argument against is that prisons create massive numbers of jobs.

Consider this: many prison guards are people who belong in prisons themselves. They are nasty, authoritarian pricks. By paying them low wages, we get them off of the streets. Otherwise they would become police officers and that would be a terrible situation. People who are powertrippers tend to become prison guards rather than cops, if that's all they're looking for.

People who gravitate toward corrections jobs do NOT belong in civil society. The prison industry effectively allows them to imprison themselves.

Second, there is the mercy issue. For one reason or another a lot of people are butthurt about the whole death penalty thing. Personally, I would choose death instead of a lengthy prison sentence, but whatever. There is also the indisputable fact that our justice system is incredibly fucked up and broken. Many innocent people are currently serving life sentences. Many, many have been found innocent even after 20 years in jail. This being the case, the state is demonstrably not responsible enough to have that kind of power.

Third, there is the issue that giving the state that kind of power increases a climate of authoritarianism. It also damages the moral position of the state: who are they to tell others not to kill if they kill themselves?

Fourth, there is the issue of deterrence. For many people, a life sentence is far more frightening than a death sentence and for some reason a lot of people can't off themselves. There is also the issue that in cases where there is no chance to survive, there is no incentive for certain types of criminals to help the cops. Why should they tell the cops where bodies are buried? Why should they confess to other crimes they've committed? Why should they surrender to the police rather than going out in a blaze of glory and taking as many innocents as possible with them? After all they are dead anyway.

Essentially, when you remove the gradient, you are removing incentive for criminals toward the far end of the scale to do anything less than their worst. If shooting some guy is going to get you the death penalty for sure, why not do him with a belt sander? I suspect that it would push people on the "murder" end of the scale to the far extreme. What more do they have to lose?

All in all, you put a lot of effort into your death penalty manifesto but I think you didn't think about it hard enough. Also, I don't know if you think these are new ideas you're expressing, but many other people have had the same ideas. It's funny to me that you seem to think you're the first person to have come up with draconian laws!

Consider this: why not chop them up for the organ banks?

When you've come up with the answer why not, you'll understand one of the reasons why your own position is untenable.