Shottys, the pro's and cons

[THErAPIST]

this is the carry over from the your collection thread:

Pump action shotty's are good in their own situations. I usually wouldnt go for a semi auto shotty in a defense situation, but the saiga's ability to handle both 2 3/4 inch shells and 3 inch mags appeals to me. the saiga also has a chrome lined barrel so it can take more abuse over time without as much damage. Flame rounds and such shouldnt be used for defense rounds to begin with. not in a home anyway lol. the fact that the saiga 12 uses a gas tube to throw the chamber open makes it a little more reliable. it'd be slightly harder to jam

I also like the spaz (sp?) 12. the shotty used in the first jurassic park movie. it can be semi auto, or you can flip a switch, rack a round, and now you have a pump. i believe it also handles a 3 inch mag

home defense, pump is USUALLY better. more fun, the semi auto.

[gbu-36]

The SPAS is a complete peice of crap in my openion, The internals are so difficult to work on. And as some other 12 guage semi's it does have problems functioning with certain loads. Ive seen even low recoil double ought buck rounds cause issues at the range in the SPAS.

As for the Saiga It definatly a nice weapon, anything pattarned off of the kalashnikov is nice in my openion when it comes to reliability though has one thing I dont like.........
The loud CLACK when you move the selector. In an ambush/combat situation its kinda a problems hehe.
As for the reliability the AK is a proven design. Ill have to do more research on how the saiga functions with various types of ammunition

As for the flamethrower rounds that was just my first thought when I was thinking of specialty ammunition, less lethal munitions are allways a nice thing to have around for certain situations (taking prisoners for interrogation, politcal means, or disarming people you'd rather not kill)

For door breaching/cqb stuff I guess Im just old fashioned in the way that Im paranoid about semi auto shotguns. And honestly with semi auto/full auto shotguns Ive noticed my tendancy to double tap the trigger kinda makes the weapons uncontrollable for someone of my stature.

Definatly when you get your saiga Id be very interested to hear how it functions with specialty ammumtion.

[THErAPIST]

See, the saiga that i plan on getting already killed off the double tap problem. it's got a ported barrel to lessen recoil. Some flechette rounds through that thing or some souble slug ammo would be fun to shoot through it though.

I've never heard anything bad about the spas, but then again ive never heard much about it to begin with. As the AK is one of if not THE easist break down weapon. if it DID have any problems it would be easy to fix/ clean. A guy i know has a sar 1 which ive shot it before. he doesnt have a selector on it so i don't know abotu the loud clack, but im sure that with some simple modification it would be easy to quiet that down. custom springs or thin metal sheeting welded on to certain internal parts to thicken them so that they wouldnt travel as far inside and slam together as hard.

If i remember correctly the remmington 870 (the numbers might be backwards) was a semi auto that was extremely reliable. I shot one once shooting clay pigeons. it would shoot as fast as i could pull the trigger, and never once had a jam. we shot it for over 4 hours only giving it two 10 minute breaks to cool down. it also had some 5 and 6 minute breaks in there while other people were shooting.

THE only pump's that i really like are mossberg pumps. the mossbergs that ive fired seemed easier to pump. more smooth instead of jerky like some of the remmington's ive shot

[gbu-36]

http://www.bigskysurplus.com/12ga.htm

For when ya get it of course =) these guys are GREAT, Ive dealt with them many a time for 66mm practice rifle grenades and for tracer/ap ammo. Prices are pretty damn good too =)

Id definatly like to hear more about it when ya get yours, Ive only put maybe 20-30 rounds through the saiga-12 myself


And I definatly agree with you one Mossberg, Ive put around 2000-3000 rounds through it and have never had a problem with it.
I have previously owned a reminton 1100 and had problems with it extracting from time to time so I ended up selling it off.

The 870 is pump by the way, and a pretty solid peice of work.

[THErAPIST]

sit, i was wondering if i had then numbers backwards.. its something close to that ( i know that doesnt help) but it was semi and was one of the best semi's ive ever blasted away with.

The only thing i dont like about the mossberg is where the safety is. it's awkward to get to.

You've shot a saiga eh? was the recoil any less than it would be with any other gun? and was it any lighter? i think they only weigh in at around 7 lbs but i dun remember. i remember one time when i shot an over under style shotty... i dont remember who it was made by, but it was heavy as all hell.

thanks for the link BTW :D

[gbu-36]

The recoil was a fairly manageable.actually, Much lighter than say a single or double shot break open 12 guage, Quite manageable by 12 guage standards , much more than my old remington actually. hrrm makes me wonder if knoxx will come out with a copstock for it.....

[THErAPIST]

i believe i'm going to get a telescoping stock for mine. m-4 style tactical shotty .

[gbu-36]

http://www.saiga-12.com/images/Large/Saiga_12K.jpg

Thats the nicest looking Saiga Ive seen,

As for the m4 style sock do you know of any suppliers for them ? I recall seeing something about an collapsable stock available for the AK in shotgun news awhile back, but cant quite remember who manufactured them ?

[THErAPIST]

that thing does look nice..
knoxx is also planning on making a collapsable m4 type stock :)

[gbu-36]

one that will fit a saiga ? Ive spoken with them just a few weeks ago (was ordering a breachers grip for a friend =) and I asked them about stuff that would fit an ak and they had nothing =\ .

Might wanna check tapco if your getting it soon. Though Im not sure if standard AK stocks will work on the saiga........

[Chevy]

Old thread but what the hell.

There is no "best shotgun", there is, the best shotgun for the job however.

For HD I always recommend a pump gun. Very reliable, easy to clear, the sound is a great deterance itself, and they are generally tougher all around then semi auto's. The pump gun will also look better in court (as long as you didn't make it all tacticool), than if you have a Saiga 12 or Spas 12, which are meant to kill people and nothing else.

For room breaching and room clearing, I still recommend a pump gun. The action is usually shorter in a pump thus making the overall length of the gun shorter (great for breeching). A shorter gun is also better for room clearing because when your squad storms the room, long barrels get in the way. They are also more likely to be grabbed, due to the length of the barrel protruding around that door way (shorter barrel= less to grab). You want superb reliability when clearing a room. Because unlike HD, you most likely have no barricade to hide behind while you clear that jam.

There is no situation in which I would recommend a semi auto. They may have the advantage of "shooting faster". But any one who has experience with a good pump can dump the rounds just as fast. I can unload my 9+1 870 in about 3 or 4 seconds on a bad day. Just remeber that when you put the mag extensions, flashlights, folding stocks, pistol grips, flash suppresors, and saddles on the gun. You are making yourself a target for all the liberal lawyers who can't wait to nail a man for defending his family. I put a side saddle on my 870 and a very large mag extension (9+1 rounds of 3 inch). But I left the wood stock and foregrip on it. Wood is never considered as tactical as an all black gun. It is as simple as that folks, unfortunately.

Obviously, if you cannot tell by now, I highly recommend one of the Rem. 870 models. I personally own a few and they all perform flawlessly.

Chevy