PDA

View Full Version : Going Down With Grace and Class


Scamula
11th April 2007, 07:30 AM
(No, this doesn't belong in the Sex section). :tongue:

Every person who lives foul must one day go down. There are whole teams of people out there from FBI to the local popo to Target AP officers who are working to bust schemers and scammers, tricksters and boosters :cop:. If you commit economic crime for any length of time even if it is just shoplifting, you will eventually go down, be it in the back of a police car or if you're lucky and smart, it'll just be a "close call". Play your cards right and that's all your "brush" will be. Going down doesn't mean that you're bad at your job, not necessarily. You've got to keep in mind that for every fraud artist, there is a wily cop or a knowlegeable LP officer who knows what's up and who knows what you're about to do before you do it (or at least they think they do). I'm not going to sit here and play that SWIM crap here....I had a close call while shoplifting once and it scared the shit out of me. Because I played my cards right, I walked away free. I didn't have my merchandise that I was trying to *obtain* but no amount of merchandise is worth your freedom.

What do you do when you find that the hounds are closing in on you? It depends on the situation. You basically have three avenues: lying your ass off, hauling that said ass, or knowing when to simply go down with grace and class. Let's look at each of them.

1. Lying Your Ass Off: This is useful in situations where the authorities suspect what you are doing, but yet do not know exactly and cannot PROVE what you are doing without extra effort and work on their part. An example of this is the door alarm goes off on you as you are leaving Wal-Mart and you have some stolen stuff in your cart. You've done your job up until this point and they didn't see you actually conceal anything. You would've gotten away scot-free but you missed one of those hidden security tags and now you're busted. This is a good situation for lying because the stakes are not too high (even if you do go down for real, you won't spend 20 years in the jug over shoplifting) and you're not talking to the real authorities (at least not yet). Simply lie your way out of it (I forgot that was at the bottom of the cart, I put it aside because I was trying to see how much my necessities came to first before I put that on the tab and then I just forgot about it) Blah blah blah. There's a good chance that they'll actually know you're bullshitting but if the person or organization gets back the stuff that you're trying to steal, no harm is really done. They're not going to go through all of the trouble to prosecute you when they know that you could possibly fight it by crying racism or something and they're getting their shit back. Lying is not good however when there's no good plausible alibi for what you've done (i.e. you actually have the stolen goods sans wrapper on your person) and you're talking to the real popo. Lying to the real popo will just make things worse on you.

2. Hauling Ass: This works if you have no real lie ready for what you've done or the stuff that you've defrauded the organization or person out of cannot be taken back in new or like new condition (i.e. you've damaged the goods or already sold them). You have no real choice then but to get the hell out of there. Only do this when the real police are not involved (ie. you're spotted stealing from Target. Make sure you have your buddy in the car waiting all the way at the back of the parking lot. Due to the sidewalk rule they cannot chase you past the walk. Run out to that car and get the hell out of there. Being that you are far away from the store, the license plates will be blurry at best). Flee! :outtahere But whatever you do, no weapons. The mere prescence of a weapon if just going to net you a harsher penalty if you do get caught.

3. Going Down With Grace and Class: Sometimes it is just necessary to go down with grace and class especially if you cannot afford a good lawyer. Let's just say you took revenge against someone who did you wrong and that revenge backfired and the next thing you know, detectives are knocking on your door wanting to speak with you. What do you do? You tell the damn truth that's what you do! :aargh4: You go down with grace and class when a lie will just make things more complicated or will result in more legal trouble if found out (and when dealing with detectives, your dirty laundry will come out). You go down with grace and class whenever dealing with the popo because if they're already there, they know more than they're letting on to you and how you cooperate with them determines your punishment. Tell the truth and take responsibility for your actions. That's a big thing with sheeplistic authority figures. Tell your motives if they are somewhat sympathy inducing and true (but don't cough up lies because they will check this story) however keep bringing up the "I take responsibility for what I've done" point because it carries loads of weight with these dudes. Also apologize for your actions. Accountability is key. You have to know when to let go. You'll just make yourself look foolish if you come up with all of these holey alibis and "I didn't do it" crap. They hear " I didn't do it man" all day long even when they catch people with the gun smoking in their hands. Of course, you have the option of just shutting your piehole until you speak with a lawyer first, but I am assuming if you had to stoop to bad ideas in the first place, you have no good lawyer money upfront. Also, sometimes a lawyer will needlessly complicate things and not be necessary. Sometimes if you are honest with what you've done and if it is not that bad, you will get a warning and not have to go down to the pokey in the first place. Play your cards right.

Having the ability to decide when to hold and when to fold is the hallmark of a good schemer.

ThePrincessOfScam
11th April 2007, 04:42 PM
Having the ability to decide when to hold and when to fold is the hallmark of a good schemer.

No shit. Which is why I cant stress enough SCOPE OF PRACTICE.

Good post, as always.

odin_dax
11th April 2007, 11:08 PM
Most people can't keep a secret. They HAVE to tell somebody, anybody. It's human nature.

Scamula
11th April 2007, 11:26 PM
Most people can't keep a secret. They HAVE to tell somebody, anybody. It's human nature.

This is my issue. I love to gloat when I've pulled off a particularly good hustle :laugh: and I have to remind myself that if the story is as good as I think it is, the person I am telling will want to spread the story as well. And on and on it goes until detectives are knocking on your door.

I've learned to keep my mouth shut about things. I have become more antisocial in recent years so that helps tremendously. :biggrin:

Scamula
11th April 2007, 11:27 PM
Good post, as always.

Thanks. :laugh:

behindthemask
18th April 2007, 11:42 PM
I never go down without a fight unless it's absolutely necessary.

Armalite
20th April 2007, 04:53 AM
Or you could ignore all of the above and get the damn lawyer. Always get the lawyer. And seriously, never say ANYTHING to the police. In fact make it a point that they announce that you are being arrested or detained at the start of your first conversation with them, otherwise you do not have to stay and talk to them. And once they arrest or detain you, you do not have to talk. Don't.

Scamula
21st April 2007, 04:05 AM
Or you could ignore all of the above and get the damn lawyer. Always get the lawyer. And seriously, never say ANYTHING to the police. In fact make it a point that they announce that you are being arrested or detained at the start of your first conversation with them, otherwise you do not have to stay and talk to them. And once they arrest or detain you, you do not have to talk. Don't.

Unless your name is OJ Simpson, if you are guilty of a crime and there is evidence against you, you indeed are going down (be it community service, a fine etc.) whether you have a lawyer or not. You are going to get some punishment. A lawyer may make it more lenient (or may not) but after you pay him or her, what you would have saved in fines or jail time gets eaten up anyway.

Besides, like I said in the OP, if you're doing bad ideas such as shoplifting in the first place, you likely don't have money for a good lawyer. And court appointed lawyers are in general a joke.

I have used the tips in the original post in my own life. I have lived it. I would not mislead anyone by telling him something that I have not done or would not do.

S25
21st April 2007, 01:20 PM
Or you could ignore all of the above and get the damn lawyer. Always get the lawyer. And seriously, never say ANYTHING to the police. In fact make it a point that they announce that you are being arrested or detained at the start of your first conversation with them, otherwise you do not have to stay and talk to them. And once they arrest or detain you, you do not have to talk. Don't.

He is right, Never say anything. I would not even admit to understanding my rights I would just contact a lawer.

Scamula
23rd April 2007, 12:40 AM
He is right, Never say anything. I would not even admit to understanding my rights I would just contact a lawer.

What if the people here don't have lawyers? The majority of court appointed lawyers are jokes. You may end up with one of the few good ones or you may not.

Keep in mind that the tips I gave are not one size fit all. You have to use some commonsense to decide what will work for your particular situation. You seem to assume that every time you're dealing with an authority figure, it's going to be the real police and that is not necessarily so. Let's say you're busted stealing sneakes from Sears and the store AP has you. Do not hesistate to bullshit 'em using my tips or anyone else's. Legally there's not much to be done to you. Do what you have to do to keep them from calling the real po po. Anyone with a grain of sense would rather deal with the rent a cops than the real po po. Don't lie when it comes to the real police because they have the tools and the know-how to catch you in them. They know they've got you before you know they've got you. Saying absolutely nothing is a hell of a lot better than lying to them.

I also have another question...if you refuse to say anything, doesn't that kind of mean you're admitting guilt in a way? I think it does. The guilty need a lawyer. The guilty will clam up. The innocent have nothing to hide. The innocent are not afraid. You are making yourself look guilty when you do this at least in my opinion. I agree with keeping your mouth shut on things like murder or robbery, things that can have you rotting away for years in the jug. The stakes are too high there for you to say the wrong thing and then fuck up everything. Besides, with crimes like that, detectives will be a-swarming and they're going to have evidence against you to know your guilty anyway. The stakes are not as high with fraud as opposed to violent crime or crimes against the person. The judge is more likely to throw the book at a child molester than a bad check artist. Unless you end up screwing people out of millions with an investment scheme and fleeing to Switzerland, it's not the end of the world.

S25
23rd April 2007, 01:08 AM
Last time I check it was Innocent until proven guilty and the right to silence still was around. I mean Anything you say will be twisted and used against you.

ComfortablyNumb
23rd April 2007, 01:31 AM
Last time I check it was Innocent until proven guilty and the right to silence still was around. I mean Anything you say will be twisted and used against you.

Right. If you get arrested you should not, ever, say anything until you get a lawyer, and if you can't afford a good one, then it is your responsibility to know the law, seeing as you probably don't want to put your fate into the hands of an overworked, underpaid, possibly incompetent public defender. Not saying anything to the police or the prosecutors is in no way an admission of guilt- if they mention that you didnt say anything to the police in court, then the prosecutor will be shot down by the judge, and, if convicted, you may be able to successfully appeal the case due to improper use of the law.

As for rent-a-cops, Dont say anything to them unless they give you a waiver to sign saying that they will not file a criminal complaint against you if you comply- they are not authority figures, they are private citizens, and have no more discretion in anything they do than other private citizens(meaning they have no real power- their badge is just to make you think they have power, and to scare teenagers into confessing when they shoplift). And, depending on what you've done, you may be better off saying nothing- if they stop you before exiting the store, they cannot do shit- it doesnt matter if you were seen on cameras shoving shit into a backpack- thats not a crime, even though they will make you think it is (unless of course you damaged the property by ripping off tags and security items- but even then you can still go buy the items in question- and if they dont let you buy them, then its their problem, not yours.- however, you need to make sure you do actually have cash or a credit card on you, giving you the ability to buy the items.)

Scamula
23rd April 2007, 06:41 AM
^ you know your shit comfortablynumb I'll give you that. :biggrin: SWIM always makes sure that she has money on her before a heist in case things don't go as planned. No one is invincible...