Could we be living in a Hologram/Computer Simulation? -You weigh in

[Day_N_Night]

To me, this section seems more fitting for this subject, but if any of the moderators see this subject as more belonging in the Weird Science Section then go head and move it but to me it seems like this section will generate more interesting Discussion

For many months, the GEO600 team-members had been scratching their heads over inexplicable noise that is plaguing their giant detector. Then, out of the blue, a researcher approached them with an explanation. In fact, he had even predicted the noise before he knew they were detecting it. According to Craig Hogan, a physicist at the Fermilab particle physics lab in Batavia, Illinois, GEO600 has stumbled upon the fundamental limit of space-time - the point where space-time stops behaving like the smooth continuum Einstein described and instead dissolves into "grains", just as a newspaper photograph dissolves into dots as you zoom in. "It looks like GEO600 is being buffeted by the microscopic quantum convulsions of space-time," says Hogan.

If this doesn't blow your socks off, then Hogan, who has just been appointed director of Fermilab's Center for Particle Astrophysics, has an even bigger shock in store: "If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true

The philosopher Nick Bostrom investigated the possibility that we may be living in a simulation.[1] A simplified version of his argument proceeds as such:

i. It is possible that a civilization could create a computer simulation which contains individuals with artificial intelligence.
ii. Such a civilization would likely run many?say billions?of these simulations (just for fun; for research, etc.)
iii. A simulated individual inside the simulation wouldn?t necessarily know that it?s inside a simulation?it?s just going about its daily business in what it considers to be the "real world."
Then the ultimate question is?if one accepts that theses 1, 2, and 3 are at least possible? which of the following is more likely?

a. We are the one civilization which develops AI simulations and happens not to be in one itself? Or,
b. We are one of the many (billions) of simulations that has run? (Remember point iii.)
In greater detail, his argument attempts to prove the trichotomy, that:

either
intelligent races will never reach a level of technology where they can run simulations of reality so detailed they can be mistaken for reality (or this is impossible in principle); or
races who do reach such a level do not tend to run such simulations; or
we are almost certainly living in such a simulation.
Bostrom's argument uses the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to simulate entire inhabited planets or even larger habitats or even entire universes as quantum simulations in time/space pockets, including all the people on them, on a computer, and that simulated people can be fully conscious, and are as much persons as non-simulated people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulat...ccam.27s_razor


http://www.biota.org/reality/bostrom.pdf


What does Rorta think about this?

[Mr.A]

Originally Posted by Day_N_Night

To me, this section seems more fitting for this subject, but if any of the moderators see this subject as more belonging in the Weird Science Section then go head and move it but to me it seems like this section will generate more interesting Discussion



http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulat...ccam.27s_razor


http://www.biota.org/reality/bostrom.pdf


What does Rorta think about this?

I've thought this for a while actually, my view is slightly different of course. We're in God's simulation. This is interesting news, thanks for the hot ass post.

EDIT: Sounds more and more like our universe is just a piece of shell on a turtle standing on top of another turtle.

[redjoker]

The kind of simulation and its purpose isn't known so do take caution. Quantum physics might be a subject that would interest you day_n_night.

[Mr.A]

It would probably interest him for about ten pages of information. lol, quantum studies of any kind after the basic ideas are way out there for me. This is all IMO of course. Off topic question: redjoker, I liked your sig video, how did you come along wimp.com?

[odin_dax]

I'll make it easy on myself.... I think, therefore I am!

[REL0AD]

Crock of bull shit if you ask me...

[Th0r]

It's an interesting thought but I don't believe it's true.

[Acid44]

i was thinin about this before it was cool

i doubt it could be true but you never know... it would explain a lot about the universe

[Day_N_Night]

Originally Posted by Mr.A

I've thought this for a while actually, my view is slightly different of course. We're in God's simulation. This is interesting news, thanks for the hot ass post.

EDIT: Sounds more and more like our universe is just a piece of shell on a turtle standing on top of another turtle.

Thats an interesting idea right there, When i first heard that the world might be holographic or have Holographic Properites at first i thought ok so whats the supposed to mean like Redjoker says, are we in a computer simulation or in the mind of some Giant.....It was kind of Ambiguous and i dont think it necesarily means that we're in a Computer.

But, i like that way of looking at it, that we are all in "God's Simulation". That makes sense in a way, That would explain how god has such power over the world -Because the world and everything in it would be his thought matter and as such he can manipulate it. And also that would mean be we are all part of God Incarnate which is a theory i have been interested in. (That we are all Subdivisions of God's Conscience and are all part of a one whole, one consciousness)

RedJoker

The kind of simulation and its purpose isn't known so do take caution.

Absoloutely, it could mean anything. Are we part of some Giant Brains Dream, are we in a computer, are we Gods Imagination etc. or it could be something totally mundane. I dont claim to beleive the that we are in a computer thoery.

RedJoker

Quantum physics might be a subject that would interest you day_n_night

From what i do know about it, it does sound interesting but like Mr.A says theres more then what meets the eye and its probably more complicated then i could handle at my current level of Science Education.

[7eleven mafia]

its simple, i choose not to believe any of it and go on with my life, these kinds out things can be thought upon for an infinite amount of time, i don't care i life my life and that's it



matrix anyone

[Mr.A]

I'm not so sure my theory on the God's consciousness is what I truely beleive, but it is a fun thought.

Thanks for compliment daynnight, I've got a gift for you. I'll post it in the ebooks thread as to not piss anyone off and get some of my post deleted .

It's God's Debris, and ebook written by Scott Adams. Just a piece of fun fiction, you might enjoy it.

[redjoker]

Originally Posted by Day_N_Night

From what i do know about it, it does sound interesting but like Mr.A says theres more then what meets the eye and its probably more complicated then i could handle at my current level of Science Education.

A little learnin never hurt anybody.

*in before a list of all the horrible things that have happened to ppl in chem labs at school*

[Day_N_Night]

Originally Posted by Mr.A

I'm not so sure my theory on the God's consciousness is what I truely beleive, but it is a fun thought.

Thanks for compliment daynnight, I've got a gift for you. I'll post it in the ebooks thread as to not piss anyone off and get some of my post deleted .

It's God's Debris, and ebook written by Scott Adams. Just a piece of fun fiction, you might enjoy it.

i have no idea about thet God's Consiousness thoery but it certainly as just as valid as any of the other theories circulating around.

Thanks for the E-Book Link, I'll take alook at the book and see if i can put it on my I-Pod Touch.

[7eleven mafia]

could we a simulation inside another simulation?

[crazy white guy]

Originally Posted by 7eleven mafia

could we a simulation inside another simulation?

Possible but that just makes it a lot less likely. Even if there was one chance in a googleplex^Googleplex then by saying its a simulation in that simulation, your multiplying that number by itself.

[MrMinister]

I would think it would be the opposite.

[Vein]

assuming there is one true reality:

the true reality has x number of races.

x is multiplied by the percent of races which reach the scientific level to create simulated realities.

then you multiply that number by the percent of races that actually create simulated realities. this number is y.

from there you multiply y by the average number of simulated realities created (z).

yz = the number of 1st generation simulated realities created.

(yz)^2 = number of 2nd generation simulated realities.

(yz)^3 = number of 3rd generation simulated realities, and so on.

I would assume yz is either 0 or much larger than 1, meaning we are either in the assumed true reality, or probably wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down the line.

[Day_N_Night]

Originally Posted by Vein

I would assume yz is either 0 or much larger than 1, meaning we are either in the assumed true reality, or probably wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down the line.

Wouldn't a society that runs "ancestor" simulations discontinue any civilization that creates their own ancestor simulations so as to avoid "stacking" of civilizations within one super computer.

The articles cover the topic of stacking (of realities) and why they beleive that a society that runs ancestor simulations would be discontinued or something to that affect(if my memory serves me correctly). So, it still comes back down to either we are in the true realiyy or we are a simulation of the true reality.

PS sorry for digging up this thead.

[DangerousLuck]

There's absolutely no way to know this. The bigger question, to me, is what defines reality and who's in charge? So many questions related to this one...there's just no way to ever know. This doesn't really contribute much, other than another question: what does it matter?

I suppose if you're a big proponent of free will vs fatalism it could bug the hell out of you, though.

[need2knowbases]

Originally Posted by DangerousLuck

what does it matter?

Some of us just need a reason to live, I guess, hence why we study these things. Which is also I believe the basis for people so devout to religions, but that's another thread for another day.

[.VX]

Consciousness is consciousness.